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Tesla is committing automotive suicide

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Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#211

Post by tasty_freeze »

vostrocity wrote: post #156
tasty_freeze wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, I have a 2023 Corolla. The dealer didn't like it when I said "LE" stands for "Low End" as a joke (it means Limited Edition). The technology for such a low end car is impressive. In addition to adaptive cruise control and lane keeping, the display shows the speed limit not by consulting a map but by reading the signs as you drive down the street. They call it RSA, Road Sign Assist. It also uses the camera and…

I always thought Toyota's LE connoted Luxury Edition and SE Sport Edition

You are right -- I just looked it up. All the same, the LE is the low-end Corolla model and I wouldn't have ever guessed it meant luxury edition.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#212

Post by vel0city »

perardi wrote: post #65
nailer wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's hard and Tesla think they can do it. See 'reusable rockets' and 'having paralysed people control things with their minds' for other examples. HN often seem to think there's Elon fans downmodding things but it seems more like a case of irrational hatred.

Oh, well let me get in my sub-$30,000 Model S, with a swappable battery and full-self-driving capabilities, and take a fully automated trip to the Hyperloop downtown so I can catch a quick ride out to O’Hare so I can fly out to watch a successful Starship launch… …oh wait. I can’t. Because for all his successes, Musk has also sowed quite a lot of bullshit that has gone precisely nowhere.

> so I can fly out to watch a successful Starship launch

Not just watch a launch, but go to O'Hare to launch and go to Sydney in ~30min. In September 2017 they said we'd be flying Earth-to-Earth on a BFR last year.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#213

Post by Qwertious »

littlestymaar wrote: post #125

I have no issue understanding why Musk does that, he's gone from “weirdo with lost of enthusiasm and charisma” to “batshit crazy, so full of himself there's basically no negative feedback loop anymore”. What I don't understand is why are the Tesla shareholders accepting his bullshit?

Tesla shareholders who fully believe Musk is crazy will either 1) be quietly selling their stocks and don't want to draw attention, or 2) factored in the crazy and bought in anyway. If the craziness started today then that would be a good question, but it's been years.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#214

Post by phainopepla2 »

AlexandrB wrote: post #154
sigio wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in (most of) europe, most of the safety-related features are mandatory on all new cars these days, so all these features must come on all trim levels. This does make the base model a lot more expensive then a few years back, but you get all the nice features, so that also makes them cheaper in general.

Honestly, I don't like this trend. Some of these features - like lane keeping - encourage/enable distracted driving. Meanwhile the necessary sensors make cars so expensive to repair that they're becoming a disposable good. As my driving instructor says: If you need a lane keeping system to keep your car in a lane, you shouldn't be behind the wheel.

I agree, and I think we're in a dangerous middle ground between fully engaged driving (manual transmissions) fully automated driving. It's hard to evaluate the net impact of these features, but I would not be surprised to learn that lane keeping actually results in more injuries and deaths due to distracted driving than it prevents

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#215

Post by duchef »

stickfigure wrote: post #150

Bipedal robots are dumb. A robot that can only walk around my house is still useless. A robot that can wheel or track or even park in front of my dryer and fold laundry would be incredible. Yet every demo is Robot Jumps And Dances, not Robot Does Something Useful. My theory is that bipedal motion is the "easy" problem, and fine motor control is the hard problem. That makes me bearish on Optimus: A car with questionab…

It seems very rational to assume bipedal motion is easy and fine control is difficult. Some babies can walk from 9 months. No 9 month olds are playing Beethoven's 5th on the Piano.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#216

Post by octorian »

BeetleB wrote: post #82

I think we're at the point where there is a bit of healthy competition in the EV space (even when excluding the Chinese), that Teslas are mostly just symbolic. People still buy Teslas. But in my circle, most have bought other EVs (and not just because of Elon). Teslas are no longer the obvious superior choice.

I still think there's a benefit to sticking with EVs from companies that are actually "all in" on EVs. Otherwise you're buying the product that the company (or really the sales/service channel) really doesn't want to sell you.

In this space, Tesla does have competition (e.g. Rivian and Lucid), but nowhere near as much as they should.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#217

Post by keeda »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #145
ultrarunner wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother bought a Tesla recently. They dicked him around with delivery, and he had to pay a ton to get charging infrastructure installed at his house, but it's fast so he's happy. On a recent visit, he finally showed me the car, and it was hilarious how janky the final product is. Everything seems cobbled together-- a good example is that there's apparently two separate voice assistants (plus his phone) and none of…

> Controls as simple as the door handles are unintuitive, with the handle apparently being the emergency release that doesn't lower the window (for who knows why). You have to brief your passengers on egress like it's an airplane. I caught a ride with a friend in a Tesla, and when we stopped I opened the door - like a human being operating a century-old piece of technology - and he looked at me like I was crazy, and…

Yeah, it apparently damages the weatherstripping (and maybe the window and other things) and is meant to be used only in an emergency /facepalm. Which is probably why your friend was alarmed.

I didn't care, I still tested it out the day I picked up mine to see where the manual handle is and make sure it works, because just a couple days earlier two people had gotten trapped in a burning Tesla, were unable to figure out the mechanism, and died.

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#218

Post by youngtaff »

d--b wrote: post #174
the_sleaze_ wrote: post #4

BYD is slapping the EV industry around like a gorilla, Tesla simply cannot compete in any meaningful way. Waymo has achieved profit per unit and people are happy to see driver-less taxis in their city and pay for the service. Tesla also cannot justify valuations based on automotive sales/subscriptions alone - they were always going to have to pivot. They're in a tight spot and they need to do something drastic.

Tesla can compete with BYD all right. They have a better brand, they are still a status symbol. They could totally build the best cars if they wanted to. But competing with BYD would mean becoming "just a car company". And that's what Tesla can't do. Too many promises have been made, the stock's been pumped too high, and there is no way a just-a-car company can justify that market cap. Their only way is to go for the…

Tesla's brand is pretty much trash across much of Europe and they certainly not a status symbol

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#219

Post by [deleted] »

XorNot wrote: post #207
asadotzler wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. That's only the case for LEO sats. Going up higher gets you hemispheric coverage with a single bird.

You wouldn't like the latency on the internet connection. And this isn't even theoretical: it's why LEO constellations were a big deal.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla is committing automotive suicide

#220

Post by api »

duskwuff wrote: post #137
TylerE wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the remote house keeper can be in some super locl 3rd world country where the prevailing wage is a few bucks a day.

That's a pretty profoundly dystopian concept. If the only way this technology is viable is as a way to exploit labor at a distance - count me out.

There's an indie sci-fi film called Sleep Dealer about this. It's not bad.
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