Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes but ideally from some objective source.
Like this? https://waymo.com/blog/2024/12/new-swiss-re-study-waymo
Maybe an objective source that isn't on the waymo.com domain?
Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica
211–220 of 813 posts
Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yup. And to add > Waymo said in its blog post that its “peer-reviewed model” shows a “fully attentive human driver in this same situation would have made contact with the pedestrian at approximately 14 mph.” It's likely that a fully-attentive human driver would have done worse. With a distracted driver (a huge portion of human drivers) it could've been catastrophic.
> It's likely that a fully-attentive human driver would have done worse. We'd have to see video of the full scene to have a better judgement, but I wouldn't call it likely. The car reacted quickly once it saw the child. Is that enough? But most humans would have been aware of the big picture scenario much earlier. Are there muliple kids milling around on the sidewalk? Near a school? Is there a big truck/SUV parked th…
According to the article the car was traveling at 17 miles an hour before it began braking. Presumably this was in a 25 mph school zone, so it seems the Waymo was already doing exactly what you describe - slowing down preemptively.
Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think my problem is that it reacted after seeing the child step out from behind the SUV. An excellent driver would have already seen that possible scenario and would have already slowed to 10 MPH or less to begin with. (It's how I taught my daughter's to drive "defensively"—look for "red flags" and be prepared for the worst-case scenario. SUV near a school and I cannot see behind it? Red flag—slow the fuck down.)
First, it's still the automobile's fault. At least it was already slowed down to 17 mph to start. Remember that viral video of some Australian in a pickup ragdolling a girl across the road? Most every comment is "well he was going the speed limit no fault for him!" No asshole, you hit someone. It's your fault. He got zero charges and the girl was seriously injured.
You seem to be implying that there are no circumstances in which a vehicle can hit a pedestrian and the driver not be at fault... which is absurd.
Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica
#214I’m actually pretty surprised Waymo as a general rule doesn’t completely avoid driving in school zones unless absolutely unavoidable. Any accident is bad. But accidents involving children are especially bad.
That would be one hell of a convoluted route to avoid school zones. I wonder if it would even be possible for a large majority of routes, especially in residential areas.
Well, I'm a human and I figure out how to avoid school zones.
Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica
#215From the Waymo blog... > the pedestrian suddenly entered the roadway from behind a tall SUV, moving directly into our vehicle's path. Our technology immediately detected the individual as soon as they began to emerge from behind the stopped vehicle. The Waymo Driver braked hard, reducing speed from approximately 17 mph to under 6 mph before contact was made. > Following contact, the pedestrian stood up immediately, w…
I'm picturing a 10 second clip showing a child with a green box drawn around them, and position of gas and brake, updating with superhuman reactions. That would be the best possible marketing that any of these self driving companies could hope for, and Waymo probably now has such a video sitting somewhere.
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Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
Aye, and to always look for feet under and by the front wheel of vehicles like that. Stopped buses similarly, people get off the bus, whip around the front of them and straight into the streets, so many times I’ve spotted someone’s feet under the front before they come around and into the street. Not to take away from Waymo here, agree with thread sentiment that they seem to have acted exemplary
You can spot someone's feet under the width of a bus when they're on the opposite side of the bus and you're sitting in a vehicle at a much higher position on the opposite side that the bus is on? That's physically impossible.
I think you're missing something though, which I've observed from reading these comments - HN commenters aren't ordinary humans, they're super-humans with cosmic powers of awareness, visibility, reactions and judgement.
Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica
#217From the Waymo blog... > the pedestrian suddenly entered the roadway from behind a tall SUV, moving directly into our vehicle's path. Our technology immediately detected the individual as soon as they began to emerge from behind the stopped vehicle. The Waymo Driver braked hard, reducing speed from approximately 17 mph to under 6 mph before contact was made. > Following contact, the pedestrian stood up immediately, w…
I'm picturing a 10 second clip showing a child with a green box drawn around them, and position of gas and brake, updating with superhuman reactions. That would be the best possible marketing that any of these self driving companies could hope for, and Waymo probably now has such a video sitting somewhere.
I dont think Waymo is interested in using a video of their car striking a child as marketing.
Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
> John Smith hits you -> you seek relief from John's insurance company. John's insurance premium goes up. He can't afford that. Thus, effective financial feedback loop. Real skin in the game. John probably (at least where I live) does not have insurance, maybe I could sue him, but he has no assets to speak of (especially if he is living out of his car), so I'm just going to pay a bunch of legal fees for nothing. He d…
I see. Thank you for sharing. Insurance here is mandatory here for all motorists. If you are hit by an underinsured driver, the government steps in and additional underinsured motorist protection (e.g. hit by an out of province/country motorist) is available to all and not expensive. Jail time for an at-fault driver here is very uncommon but can be applied if serious injury or death results from a driver's conduct. T…
Insurance here is also mandatory for all motorists. Doesn't matter if the rules aren't actually enforced.
Waymo has deep pockets, so everyone is going to try and sue them, even if they don't have a legitimate grievance. Where I live, the city/state would totally milk each incident from a BigCo for all it was worth. "Hit and run" by a drunk waymo? The state is just salivating thinking about the possibility.
I don't agree with you that BigCorp doesn't have any skin in the game. They are basically playing the game in a bikini.
Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica
#219[deleted]
Re: Waymo robotaxi hits a child near an elementary school in Santa Monica
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
Immediately hitting the brakes when a child suddenly appears in front of you, instead of waiting 500ms like a human, and thereby hitting the child at a speed of 6 instead of 14 is a success. What else to you expect them to do, only run on grade–separated areas where children can't access? Blare sirens so children get scared away from roads? Shouldn't human–driven cars do the same thing then?
I don't know the implementation details, but success would be not hitting pedestrians. You have some interesting ideas on how to achieve that but there might be other ways, I don't know.
>I don't know the implementation details, but success would be not hitting pedestrians.
So by that logic, if we cured cancer but the treatment came with terrible side effects it wouldn't be considered a "success"? Does everything have to perfect to be a success?