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Iran's internet blackout may become permanent, with access for elites only

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Re: Iran's internet blackout may become permanent, with access for elites only

#211

Post by alibarber »

DrScientist wrote: post #206
alibarber wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is some evidence to suggest that certain countries (Russia, China, Iran itself) have an incentive to use the Gaza conflict to cause disunity in the west - and hence keep it in the news cycle and public opinion. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/technology/israel-hamas-i... Interestingly, during the last internet blackout in Iran, a lot of the pro Scottish independence X accounts went quiet too: https://en.wiki…

Interesting, but also absurd. The Scottish independence movement is a very strong, grass roots campaign that has been building for many decades ( pre-web never mind pre-twitter ), with the Scottish ambivalence to the Union having deep cultural roots. What keeps Gaza and the wider actions of the current Israel government in the news is the constant killings and injustices. If they didn't want to be in the news perhaps…

No I am absolutely not saying that.

I am saying that there is evidence that the amount of media (and I am including X/Twitter and other social media) attention given to various causes around the world is actively manipulated. This is in response to a comment querying the perceived disparity in media coverage of events. Not that these events are or are not occurring or a more 'worthy' cause than one another.

I very much understand the history around Scottish independence, but unfortunately it will take me a lot of convincing to genuinely believe that twitter accounts in Iran sharing news that Balmoral castle has been taken over by protestors [1] are well meaning.

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20260117184736/https://www.teleg...

Re: Iran's internet blackout may become permanent, with access for elites only

#212

Post by ZoomZoomZoom »

dist-epoch wrote: post #108
aquir wrote: post #104

This should not be possible in 2026...

This will be entirely possible in 2027 when AI will be able to individually profile each connection for "disident" risk.

I've seen unconfirmed reports of strange blocking patterns in Russian Federation that suggest individual profiling has at the very least been tested already. No need to wait a year.

Re: Iran's internet blackout may become permanent, with access for elites only

#213

Post by netsharc »

Nursie wrote: post #65
breppp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a very weird kind of propaganda I see a lot of lately. Everything is the same and comparable never mind how hyperbolic. Doubt it? be showered with cherry picked micro facts that on the surface are similar. This rests on the fact that in order to establish a big picture you have to take small facts and agree on the big picture, and that leap from small and verifiable to large and analytic is the place you can inj…

This seems to happen a lot. The UK is doing some shitty stuff and a man was arrested for wearing a “Plasticine Action” t-shirt a few weeks ago, “Palestine Action” being a proscribed group in the UK, and showing support being an offence. When the mistake was realised he was released after a few hours with an apology. These things are objectively terrible, shouldn’t be happening. The UK government is under popular and…

But defending the arrest of the man with "Plasticine Action" t-shirt as a mistake (only realized after a "few" hours, god damn!), is god damn ridiculous.

About 2 decades ago I read an article about how bureucracies don't even allow for humor any more, e.g. even clearly joking about having a bomb in the airport is now taboo. Something about rigid inhumane inflexible rules, in my vague memory of that article.

Where airport security has to examine babies for terrorist motives, because it's written in the rules, fuck human reasoning!

Heh in my own estimation arresting supporters of Palestine Action for peacefully protesting is already too close to Iranian autocracy ideal and too far from a "democratic country" ideal which the UK used to be...

Re: Iran's internet blackout may become permanent, with access for elites only

#214

Post by Nursie »

roenxi wrote: post #207
Nursie wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The example given was of a man in a “Plasticine Action” t-shirt, with the poster saying how that man was “disappeared” by the British state when he was briefly arrested and released. If you’re not aware of the history of people being disappeared by states such as Chile under Pinochet, or more broadly what it means for a state to disappear someone, that’s kinda on you. Either way these are not equivalent actions. Yes,…

I mean, you bought up an example of a man being dragged off the streets of the UK for (1) trying to express support for playdough and (2) being suspected of undermining support for genocide. I have relatives in the UK, right now. And after this conversation I'm now more concerned for them than I was this morning, and I can make some educated guesses about why ol' mate didn't want to talk to you about Pinochet, who Wi…

This feels disingenuous on your part now and is in fact exhibiting the exact problem brought up in the thread.

You’re not being asked to feel better about the UK! If you didn’t know about this stuff and you feel worse about the UK, good, you probably should!

But you are being asked to see a difference in degree between:

  Someone speaks out about human rights abuses and murder sanctioned by the state, and is arrested, then later released with an apology.

  Someone speaks out about human rights abuses and murder sanctioned by the state, and is arrested, their arrest is denied by the state and they turn up several years later in a mass grave.
You’re telling me those are the same thing?

> I mean, seriously, I have left-wing family members who might be travelling to the UK this year. Is there some sort of guide to what political t-shirts will get them arrested?

“Palestine Action” is currently a proscribed organisation. They are proscribed because some of them are alleged to have fucked with some fighter jets and done some other illegal direct action stuff.

So currently it’s illegal to show support for that specific group.

There are open court challenges to the whole situation, and many hundreds of people are awaiting trial for continuing to show support to the group after the proscription. The whole thing is a shitshow.

But you can (AFAICT) support Palestine and Palestinian people as much as you like, you’re just not allowed to wave “Palestine Action” flags or t-shirts around.

Re: Iran's internet blackout may become permanent, with access for elites only

#215

Post by thomassmith65 »

mahdi7d1 wrote: post #200
gambutin wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Glad to see you here. I’m almost afraid to ask but how are you and everyone else?

I use this same username everywhere and it's tied to my identity so let me keep it brief. I live in a small town and you wouldn't get much protesting or any political activity in those. On the other hand, I'm currently serving in the police force (Which all able bodied men of age have to do and serve in one of the three armed forces of my country) and the bigger question since the start of the protests has been "What…

That is a nightmare. Hopefully events play out such that you can stay true to your conscience.

Re: Iran's internet blackout may become permanent, with access for elites only

#216

Post by pezgrande »

otherme123 wrote: post #154
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... EU already blocks eg. some russian sites (some countries more effectively than others)... plus all the chat control pressures every year. Spain is blocking whole blocks of internet during football matches. UK is making you "show your ID card" to jerk off. But every such country likes pointing fingers at others, "hey, our censorship is not bad, they have more of it!". edit: considering the downvotes, HN is n…

> Spain is blocking whole blocks of internet during football matches. Lets make this clear: "Spain" is not blocking, some ISP companies which have many users ask the judge for permission to block IP ranges because they are streaming football matches. The judge agrees (they don't seem to know how Cloudflare works), so the ISPs are the ones that are blocking their own users to access sites behind Cloudflare. As they ha…

The fact they allow this sh*t even when it is widely know that is happening and being abused, makes the government also responsible because inaction.

Re: Iran's internet blackout may become permanent, with access for elites only

#217

Post by Nursie »

netsharc wrote: post #213
Nursie wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to happen a lot. The UK is doing some shitty stuff and a man was arrested for wearing a “Plasticine Action” t-shirt a few weeks ago, “Palestine Action” being a proscribed group in the UK, and showing support being an offence. When the mistake was realised he was released after a few hours with an apology. These things are objectively terrible, shouldn’t be happening. The UK government is under popular and…

But defending the arrest of the man with "Plasticine Action" t-shirt as a mistake (only realized after a "few" hours, god damn!), is god damn ridiculous. About 2 decades ago I read an article about how bureucracies don't even allow for humor any more, e.g. even clearly joking about having a bomb in the airport is now taboo. Something about rigid inhumane inflexible rules, in my vague memory of that article. Where air…

Who’s defending it?

It’s awful that they’re arresting people with “Palestine Action” t-shirts too. It’s just not the same thing as actually disappearing people.

That's the point of this thread, no? Things can be bad in different ways and to different degrees.

If I say I don't like the way you just spoke about my sister and punch you in the gut, that's a pretty shitty thing to do.

If I say I don't like the way you just spoke about my sister and cut your throat then bury your body in the forest, I would like to think we can agree that's worse.

Re: Iran's internet blackout may become permanent, with access for elites only

#218

Post by stereolambda »

Nursie wrote: post #65
breppp wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a very weird kind of propaganda I see a lot of lately. Everything is the same and comparable never mind how hyperbolic. Doubt it? be showered with cherry picked micro facts that on the surface are similar. This rests on the fact that in order to establish a big picture you have to take small facts and agree on the big picture, and that leap from small and verifiable to large and analytic is the place you can inj…

This seems to happen a lot. The UK is doing some shitty stuff and a man was arrested for wearing a “Plasticine Action” t-shirt a few weeks ago, “Palestine Action” being a proscribed group in the UK, and showing support being an offence. When the mistake was realised he was released after a few hours with an apology. These things are objectively terrible, shouldn’t be happening. The UK government is under popular and…

I would see it as moving the baseline, which Europe and (more historically) UK was for many people in civil rights area. If we just say that authoritarian countries are still worse, this partly implies that what Western countries are doing is becoming acceptable, as long as it is still "better" or "less bad".

The important point is, if the erosion of civil liberties continues, these governments are losing their high ground. They must stop.

As in the Cold War, I would give an allowance for the West to still be preferable (modulo strict rights record) if they actually muster some sort of power to confront tyranny. But if the rulers only want cheap rhetoric wins, no.

Re: Iran's internet blackout may become permanent, with access for elites only

#219

Post by chairmansteve »

walletdrainer wrote: post #10
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... EU already blocks eg. some russian sites (some countries more effectively than others)... plus all the chat control pressures every year. Spain is blocking whole blocks of internet during football matches. UK is making you "show your ID card" to jerk off. But every such country likes pointing fingers at others, "hey, our censorship is not bad, they have more of it!". edit: considering the downvotes, HN is n…

> UK is making you "show your ID card" to jerk off. There are no ID cards in the UK, so you actually have to get a special jerking off loicense.

You've got to pass a test first.

Re: Iran's internet blackout may become permanent, with access for elites only

#220

Post by 4gotunameagain »

derektank wrote: post #105
4gotunameagain wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mossad is curious as well. They might want to indiscriminately make people's devices blow up in public again.

There are a lot of words one could use to describe the Israeli pager attack on Hezbollah, but indiscriminate isn’t one that leaps to mind, particular when compared against other contemporary military strikes

Comparing the lack of humanity of military strikes surely is a slippery slope.

Let me remind you that many civilians died, including two children. Don't take my word for it:

The following quote can be attributed to Lama Fakih, Middle East and North Africa Director at Human Rights Watch:

    “Customary international humanitarian law prohibits the use of booby traps – objects that civilians are likely to be attracted to or are associated with normal civilian daily use – precisely to avoid putting civilians at grave risk and produce the devastating scenes that continue to unfold across Lebanon today. The use of an explosive device whose exact location could not be reliably known would be unlawfully indiscriminate, using a means of attack that could not be directed at a specific military target and as a result would strike military targets and civilians without distinction. A prompt and impartial investigation into the attacks should be urgently conducted.”
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/09/18/lebanon-exploding-pagers...
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