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Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

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Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#211
post #183
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My "actual job" isn't to write code, but to solve problems. Writing code has just typically been how I've needed to solve those problems. That has increasingly shifted to "just" reviewing code and focusing on the architecture and domain models. I get to spend more time on my actual job.

> My "actual job" isn't to write code, but to solve problems. Yes, and there's often a benefit to having a human have an understanding of the concrete details of the system when you're trying to solve problems. > That has increasingly shifted to "just" reviewing code It takes longer to read code than to write code if you're trying to get the same level of understanding. You're gaining time by building up an understan…

It's like any other muscle, if you don't exercise it, you will lose it.

It's important that when you solve problems by writing code, you go through all the use cases of your solution. In my experience, just reading the code given by someone else (either a human or machine) is not enough and you end up evaluating perhaps the main use cases and the style. Most of the times you will find gaps while writing the code yourself.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#212
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ll be honest with you pal - this statement sounds like you’ve bought the hype. The truth is likely between the poles - at least that’s where it’s been for the last 35 years that I’ve been obsessed with this field.

They may be early but they’re not wrong.

That could be said about hover cars too.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#213
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This feels like it conflates problem solving with the production of artifacts. It seems highly possible to me that the explosion of ai generated code is ultimately creating more problems than it is solving and that the friction of manual coding may ultimately prove to be a great virtue.

This statement feels like a farmer making a case for using their hands to tend the land instead of a tractor because it produces too many crops. Modern farming requires you to have an ecosystem of supporting tools to handle the scale and you need to learn new skills like being a diesel mechanic. How we work changes and the extra complexity buys us productivity. The vast majority of software will be AI generated, tool…

> This statement feels like a farmer making a case for using their hands to tend the land instead of a tractor because it produces too many crops. Modern farming requires you to have an ecosystem of supporting tools to handle the scale and you need to learn new skills like being a diesel mechanic.

This to me looks like an analogy that would support what GP is saying. With modern farming practices you get problems like increased topsoil loss and decreased nutritional value of produce. It also leads to a loss of knowledge for those that practice those techniques of least resistance in short term.

This is not me saying big farming bad or something like that, just that your analogy, to me, seems perfectly in sync with what the GP is saying.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#215
post #187
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On my part, I don't use that carry method at ll. When I have to substract, I substract by chunks that my brain can easily subtract. For example 1233 - 718, I'll do 1233 - 700 = 533 then 533 - 20 = 513 then 513 + 2 = 515. It's completely instinctive (and thus I can't explain to my children :-) ) What I have asked my children to do very often is back-of-the-envelope multiplications and other computations. That really h…

I have a two year old and often worry that I'll teach him some intuitive arithmetic technique, then school will later force a different method and mark him down despite getting the right answer. What if it ends up making him hate school, maths, or both?

I experienced this. Only made me hate school, but maybe because I had game programming at home to appreciate math with

Just expose them to everyday math so they aren't one of those people who think math has no practical uses. My father isn't great with math, but would raise questions like how wide a river was (solvable from one side with trig, using 30 degree angles for easy math). Napkin math makes things much more fun than strict classroom math with one right answer

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#216
I wonder if a similar thing makes managers dumb. As a manager, you have people doing work you oversee, a very similar dynamic to using an AI assistant. Sometimes the AI/subordinate makes a mistake, so you have to watch for that, but for the most part they can be trusted.

If that’s true, then maybe we could leverage what we know about good management of human subordinates and apply it to AI interaction, and vice versa.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#217
post #108

My friend works with people in their 20s. She recently brought up her struggles to do the math in her head for when to clock in/out for their lunches (30 minutes after an arbitrary time). The young coworker's response was "Oh I just put it into ChatGPT" The kids are using ChatGPT for simple maths...

Eh. I have a math degree. Aced all the advanced maths. Was the only one to get an A in Diff Eq. I love math. I've never been able to do simple math in my head. I can't even remember the times tables half the time. Simple math isn't really problem solving.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#218
post #167
post #98

This seems to confirm my feeling when using AI too much. It's easy to get started, but I can feel my brain engaging less with the problem than I'm used to. It can form a barrier to real understanding, and keeps me out of my flow. I recently worked on something very complex I don't think I would have been able to tackle as quickly without AI; a hierarchical graph layout algorithm based on the Sugiyama framework, using…

My "actual job" isn't to write code, but to solve problems. Writing code has just typically been how I've needed to solve those problems. That has increasingly shifted to "just" reviewing code and focusing on the architecture and domain models. I get to spend more time on my actual job.

All employees solve problems. Developers have benefited from the special techniques they have learned to solve problems. If these techniques are obsolete, or are largely replaced by minding a massive machine, the character of the work, the pay for performing it, and social position of those who perform it will change.

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#219
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Calculators do do arithmetic and if you ask me to do the kind of calculations I had to do in high school by hand today I wouldnt be able to I got scared by how awfully my juniour (middle? 5-11) school mathematics had slipped when helping my 9 year old boy with his homework yesterday. I literally couldn't remember how to carry the 1 when doing subtractions of 3 digit numbers! Felt literally idiotic having to ask an…

On my part, I don't use that carry method at ll. When I have to substract, I substract by chunks that my brain can easily subtract. For example 1233 - 718, I'll do 1233 - 700 = 533 then 533 - 20 = 513 then 513 + 2 = 515. It's completely instinctive (and thus I can't explain to my children :-) ) What I have asked my children to do very often is back-of-the-envelope multiplications and other computations. That really h…

This doesn’t scale to larger numbers though. I do that too for smaller subtractions but if I need to calculate some 9 digit computation then I would use the standard pen and paper tabular method with borrowing (not that it comes up in practice).

Re: Your brain on ChatGPT: Accumulation of cognitive debt when using an AI assistant

#220
post #187
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On my part, I don't use that carry method at ll. When I have to substract, I substract by chunks that my brain can easily subtract. For example 1233 - 718, I'll do 1233 - 700 = 533 then 533 - 20 = 513 then 513 + 2 = 515. It's completely instinctive (and thus I can't explain to my children :-) ) What I have asked my children to do very often is back-of-the-envelope multiplications and other computations. That really h…

I have a two year old and often worry that I'll teach him some intuitive arithmetic technique, then school will later force a different method and mark him down despite getting the right answer. What if it ends up making him hate school, maths, or both?

It’s valuable to learn different techniques to achieve the same result. That’s what math is all about.
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