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Skip is now free and open source

skip.dev

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Re: Skip is now free and open source

#211

Post by likium »

adrianN wrote: post #168
anonymous908213 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The highest quality tools in the software development space tend to be FOSS > People build tools that they want to use, then share it with others because it's free to This maybe sounds true on the surface, but isn't really? Prior to VSCode, Visual Studio was the most-used editor by professional developers for a very long time, with Sublime Text and Jetbrains' IDEs being close behind, and the paid options are still…

As a hobbyist programmer I make precisely zero dollars a year so paying for my tools only makes sense if they increase my nonmonetary enjoyment. As an employee I have very little power to convince my company to buy a certain tool and I tend to prefer the tools I‘m already familiar with from my hobby.

Equipment for any real life hobby costs money, and people are willing to pay for good equipment. Why is software so different? FOSS has made us so resistant to paying for good software. I'm not saying software has to be expensive, even $20 per major version could make a burgeoning indie industry thrive.

Re: Skip is now free and open source

#212

Post by [deleted] »

igogq425 wrote: post #183

I read appeals here asking developers to please pay for their tools. I would like to point out that collective behavior cannot be changed by appealing to individuals. Furthermore, it is the employer's responsibility to provide tools for employees. I'm not going to get into a tug-of-war with my employer over this. I simply work with the tools I am provided. For self-employed individuals and companies, this should be r…

[deleted]

Re: Skip is now free and open source

#213

Post by duskdozer »

skavi wrote: post #45
agentifysh wrote: post #34

This is a welcome addition but why should Flutter devs use this ? Seems like it requires 32gb of ram! Also Flutter is already very mature and can produce not only near-native mobile apps (the difference is almost negligible) but can target desktop and even web applications. I do wonder how much of a boost skip offers vs Flutter's mobile apps. Will give skip a try when dram prices normalize.

Dunno about Skip, but I can always tell when an app is Flutter. They feel like crap. Everything's a bit off with the native looking widgets. And fully custom designs still animate a bit weirdly. And they definitely still stutter. Somehow a tier below React Native.

I've noticed several of the apps that don't respect device animation settings were built with Flutter. Not sure if that's a limitation of it or if the developers culturally don't bother.

Re: Skip is now free and open source

#214

Post by duskdozer »

nsm wrote: post #70

> The plain truth is that developers expect to get their tools free of charge. This is an accurate, but damning indictment of how some of the most highly paid workers on the planet won't pay for tools. Unlike nearly every other profession. Folks, if you can afford it, please pay for quality software, instead of relying on FAANG and VC money to keep the tools going!

Paid tools are in my experience much more likely to engage in practices that make them less useful or more frustrating for me, like:

- repeatedly changing UIs in often deleterious ways - wasting my/CPU time on analytics and engagement - upselling tactics - focusing on making the most money, not providing the best tool - preventing or making difficult the use of old versions - reducing customization for the sake of reducing customer support or branding - preventing me from making minor tweaks to code that would improve or fix something

Re: Skip is now free and open source

#215

Post by ckcheng »

letwhile wrote: post #188
internetter wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please refresh yourself on https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Please provide a helpful comment instead of "rtfm".

“Please don't do things to make titles stand out…

“If the title includes the name of the site, please take it out…

“If the title contains a gratuitous number or number + adjective, we'd appreciate it if you'd crop it…

“Otherwise please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait; don't editorialize.” (From that link.)

Hope that helps.

Re: Skip is now free and open source

#216

Post by satvikpendem »

marcprux wrote: post #44
agentifysh wrote: post #34

This is a welcome addition but why should Flutter devs use this ? Seems like it requires 32gb of ram! Also Flutter is already very mature and can produce not only near-native mobile apps (the difference is almost negligible) but can target desktop and even web applications. I do wonder how much of a boost skip offers vs Flutter's mobile apps. Will give skip a try when dram prices normalize.

See my response below on the KMP question: the comparison with CMP mostly applies to Flutter as well. > near-native mobile apps (the difference is almost negligible) Not as of the advent of Liquid Glass on iOS (and, to a lesser extent, Material Expressive on Android). Flutter isn't going to be implementing these new interface conventions[1], and so the UI for these apps are stuck on the last generation and are alread…

Flutter's grim outlook? It's being used more now than ever before, with both enterprise use as well as 30% of all new free iOS app store apps are now using Flutter.

https://shorebird.dev/blog/flutter-not-dead/

Re: Skip is now free and open source

#217

Post by d0liver »

croon wrote: post #200
d0liver wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assumed that they meant "cost of production", since that's what you give to keep your money, so that includes 0->1. But if what they meant is what you said then I'd say that the cost of 0->1 is not somehow less important. Software does make 1->100 much more accessible though, so, in that way, you have an opportunity to help out very small businesses in a way that you can't in other industries, which is even more of…

I think the comparison to other industries is that while they pay for tools, it's not the inventor of the hammer that gets paid, but the producer of the unit, which in software is ~0. I'm not arguing against paying/donating to FOSS, but I do support the discrete distinction to physical tools.

If the tool is saving you a large chunk of time, then why does it matter what's happening in another industry? We seem to be losing a really simple thread here: Pay for things because they present more value to you than you're giving away in payment.

Y'all seem to have some notion of what constitutes "fair" payment that you're so attached to that you're willing to shoot yourselves in the foot.

Re: Skip is now free and open source

#218

Post by satvikpendem »

x0x0 wrote: post #60
well_ackshually wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flutter is fine if you don't care about performance, accessibility, have no need to access native capabilities or non-fluttered widgets (ex: the Google map integration is awful) and overall just want to make an internal app. The cost of making an excellent flutter app is about the same you'd pay making fully native apps. Except that you're always paying for Skia's costs with Flutter. This recommends 32GB to run _ever…

And are comfortable making a 1-2 million dollar per devteam per year bet that Google won't rug pull you. And they seem to have no important or big app on it. On an unrelated note, in 2024 Google did layoffs on the Flutter team.

https://shorebird.dev/blog/flutter-not-dead/

Also, the layoffs were for infrastructure engineers who were working on Flutter builds not actual core Flutter devs. And the layoff was just an offshoring, they moved the same jobs from the US to Europe.

Re: Skip is now free and open source

#219

Post by satvikpendem »

ashishb wrote: post #95

There have been several iterations to have a unified way to build Android and iOS apps. - using HTML - using JavaScript - using JS+React - using Dart - using Kotlin - using Swift This fundamentally does not work for anyone with more than 10M+ installs just like you can't write Mandarin and English in one script. This only works for devs who over time churn out as their app fails or becomes too big [1] 1 - https://ash…

I mean, this is "fundamentally" wrong. Shopify for example continues to use React Native [0].

[0] https://shopify.engineering/five-years-of-react-native-at-sh...

Re: Skip is now free and open source

#220

Post by satvikpendem »

mrkeen wrote: post #171

I've never quite found the right cross-platform phone dev setup before, so this piqued my interest a little. Skip requires a macOS 15+ development machine with Xcode 16.4 or later installed. So not really the cross-platform I was imagining. That one's on me. With no additional managed runtime, Skip apps are as efficient as they can possibly be on both platforms. Bold claim. These guys must really care about every byt…

If you are making an iOS app, Apple requires you to have a Mac, regardless of whatever UI framework you use. It is not up to Skip or React Native or Flutter to obviate that need.
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