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When employees feel slighted, they work less

penntoday.upenn.edu

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Re: When employees feel slighted, they work less

#211

Post by benj111 »

educasean wrote: post #192
benj111 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you jump to the conclusion of parent being the problem? Your comment implicitly accepts that people's social skills can be problematic, but you assume it isn't the manager?

I actually do not really mean what I wrote. I disliked what the commenter had to say about other people's social skills in a different thread and wanted to get one in. Not my most mature moment.

So technically you do mean what you said? Just aimed at the parent in particular, not as some general rule.

Anyway, maturity is overrated, and sometimes A holes need to be called A holes, I haven't read the comment at issue so whether the parent deserved it is left as an exercise for the reader.

Re: When employees feel slighted, they work less

#212

Post by peacebeard »

reactordev wrote: post #96
taway112233 wrote: post #74

This article hits close to home. Recently management provided some 'training' for everybody at where i work, specially focused at team leaders/supervisors, about being courteous based on a training that Disney offers around the world. The focus was not only to be courteous to your end-users, but also to those who you manage and are on your team. I'm really good at my job, and a few years ago i became a supervisor. Bu…

Sometimes the best managers are the ones that aren’t emotionally vested and just expect the work to be done right. You don’t have to be anyone but yourself. You don’t have to change who you are simply because you’re a manager now. You can simply continue being you. Allow those under you to be them. The hardest part of management is managing up.

“They don’t pay you to be perfect, they pay you to be yourself.” -Ted Lasso

Re: When employees feel slighted, they work less

#213

Post by 9rx »

pastel8739 wrote: post #163
gwbas1c wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't compare employee relationships to dog training. I've had a few encounters with poor managers (or potential managers) who wanted to treat me like a dog. I turned heel and ran in those cases. It's a bad analogy for managing people and should not be perpetuated.

It sounds to me that they are actually saying that managing an employee is _not_ like training a dog

It is, rather, that managing a manager is like training a dog. As in, if you take a day off later in the week after feeling slighted as the article suggests people do, the manager will never realize that your absenteeism is a result of what they did and not just some other random life event that came your way, such as becoming sick. Much like training a dog, it posits that you need to give the feedback soon after in order for the association to become recognizable by the manager.

Although it seems unlikely to me that anyone who is taking time off after feeling slighted is doing so as some kind of silent protest in hopes that the manager will change. I expect it is done to nurse the wound.

Re: When employees feel slighted, they work less

#214

Post by trympet »

eikenberry wrote: post #191
catlifeonmars wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The relationship between owners and workers has always been extractive. The adversarial relationship is built in. That doesn’t mean that you can’t have a good relationship with your employer, but there is always a conflict of interest, so to speak. I’ve had great relationships with my bosses, but they’re always under pressure to extract more work from the workers. In turn, their bosses are also pressured to do the sa…

Classifying a relationship as adversarial presumes a competitive context. I don't believe we are in competition with our employer but in a cooperative relationship, so we're talking game theory. A good employer cooperates with their employees to achieve business goals, a bad manager defects and prioritizes their personal goals/desires above the shared business goals. Your relationship falls out of this behavior (assu…

What about a farm worker who tills the land? Is every farmer/farm worker achieving business goals through _cooperation_? What about seasonal farm workers? I guess the farmer can set up incentive payments, but even so, are you saying there no adversarial component to the relationship?

Re: When employees feel slighted, they work less

#215

Post by catlifeonmars »

andy99 wrote: post #202
catlifeonmars wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ve never worked in retail or service industries, have you?

I have, and your reply is a pretty weak fallback from The relationship between owners and workers has always been extractive. The adversarial relationship is built in. I’m sure extractive relationships exist, but it’s certainly not an iron law of work, and I’m not even sure it’s that common in most modern workplaces.

Why is this a weak fallback?

Since we’re speaking anecdotally: I’ve also worked in service industry, and I have personally observed employers/managers abusing their power to elevate themselves at the expense of their employees. Does that make you reconsider? I would hazard to guess it doesn’t.

My point being that anecdotal evidence isn’t particularly useful.

> I’m not even sure it’s that common in most modern workplaces.

I don’t know what to tell you honestly. This is an incredibly naive take

Edit:

I feel I’ve been uncharitable in responding to you. I think we are likely talking past each other and what an “extractive” relationship is. I don’t think people are malicious. Most people (IMO) are essentially good and maliciousness is relatively rare. That said, if you work for an employer, you will always be resisting pressure from above to do more work for less pay. Maybe you’re lucky and you have an excellent middle manager (I have had some) who are skilled at preventing shit from rolling downhill. The fact remains the pressure exists and eventually, someone breaks. Maybe they have a bad day, or fall into financial distress, or the economy sucks. It doesn’t really matter. The people who pay the highest cost are the people at closer to the bottom of that hierarchy.

Re: When employees feel slighted, they work less

#216

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

catlifeonmars wrote: post #116
tarkin2 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have we got to the point where we need an article telling us that slighting people doesn't help their motivation? Perhaps the answer is yes when we also compare a worker's motivation to a dog's motivation seemingly without irony.

> When you train a dog, you have to give a reward very soon after the desired behavior, otherwise the dog won't associate the reward with the behavior. Likewise, a manager is not going to associate a slight towards an employee with an increase in absenteeism or lower productivity that happens days and weeks later. Note that GP is comparing the _managers_ motivation to a dog’s motivation, not the worker. It’s about a…

>It’s about a delayed feedback loop to the manager, who won’t connect the punishment (lower productivity) with the bad behavior (slighting the employee).

It's delayed because the employee fears further retribution still. You need some distance between yourself and the bloodthirsty dog before you can even hope to reduce your productivity, or you'll be mauled quite enthusiastically. By delaying it for days or weeks, by being out of sight when it happens, there is plausible deniability that can let them survive the attacks.

Managers do this to themselves, they punish people who would give them the quick feedback loop.

Re: When employees feel slighted, they work less

#217

Post by shimman »

tarkin2 wrote: post #52
pinnochio wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a documented effect and effect size puts this in terms that can change manager behavior, even a somewhat callous one, because they can see how it affects their own professional goals. Btw, the comparison was between the dog and manager, and about the association of cause and effect. Maybe you should try to read more carefully and charitably in the future.

Well, to many it seemed that an obvious cause-and-effect fact that should have come from empathy and introspection--that workers are just like you and I don't like being slighted--and didn't need to be written about. Yet when of the top comments used dog training to explain manager-worker relations--something that empathy and introspection could tell you was a bit off (would you feel slighted if I make our interactio…

Teaching the rich/elites that we are all human is probably the best chance at self preservation they have.

Re: When employees feel slighted, they work less

#218

Post by donatj »

throw__away7391 wrote: post #159
locao wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm a bit childish, but I feel neglected when I am asked to sign an work anniversary card for a colleague and next week my manager doesn't even acknowledge my work anniversary. It happened for the last 4 years and, yes, it affects my productivity in the day.

Some time ago I had my 10 year anniversary forgotten once in a company (where I had written almost the entire codebase for their core product myself) and I did feel slighted. I had felt invested in the company, to me this day was a big deal and my company was completely unaware. It felt like a disorienting mismatch of unreciprocated commitment and made me feel a bit sick in the pit of my stomach. I started looking fo…

My company gave out nice plaques for ten year anniversaries. As my anniversary neared I frankly got really excited to receive mine.

My manager started a couple months before myself, and a colleague started a couple months later. We still work together all our anniversaries in a line.

My manager got his plaque and showed it off. I patiently awaited mine.

When my 10 year anniversary came around we were in the middle of being acquired. It seemingly got lost in the fuss. My anniversary came and went. Zero acknowledgement beyond an automated email and some points towards the company store. No plaque.

When my colleague's 10 year anniversary came around a few months later and he got an even nicer plaque than my manager AND a small celebration...

I'm not one to usually express anger or disappointment, but I got salty and maybe said some things I shouldn't have. I'm frankly still salty and it's five years later.

I feel a little childish but I just wanted a plaque. I waited ten years for my plaque. My wife had offered to make me one.

My fifteen year anniversary is coming in a few months. We'll see if anything comes of it.

The little things are more important than they seem.

Re: When employees feel slighted, they work less

#219

Post by some_furry »

catlifeonmars wrote: post #173
tarkin2 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that /anyone/ is being compared to a dog, that the whole relationship is being compared as such. It's demeaning and is pretty much a slight, ironically enough (albeit directed towards the manager in this occasion)

You don’t find Pavlov’s manager the least bit humorous?

Do you reckon Pavlov associated a ringing bell with feeding his dog?

(Also as a furry this whole thread is funny.)

Re: When employees feel slighted, they work less

#220

Post by dghlsakjg »

ok123456 wrote: post #189
andsoitis wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> late birthday recognition. if someone is going to feel slighted and similar things add up to them working less, they probably are not a great colleague to begin with. What matters more are: assignment to rewarding work, get paid top dollar, not be bored, get recognition for success, coaching on career growth, given leeway to make mistakes, not overlooked for promotion, etc. Now, as a people manager, if you're not s…

I always immensely disliked workplace birthday celebrations. I've never really celebrated my own birthday. If your actual friends or family want to do something, that's fine. But mandatory birthday card signings and having your workplace surprise "decorated" with stuff for a children's birthday party (that gets taken down and reused for the next office birthday) is grim, impersonal, and infantilizing. Nothing at all…

It isn’t about the birthday card. It is about someone with power over you demonstrating through actions that they don’t care about you. As an alternative think of this scenario: I prepared a presentation and arranged for the entire team to attend specifically for a manager above mine who had asked for it. He ghosted the meeting, and asked for a TLDR. Every single person in that meeting felt disrespected personally, and stopped taking the issue that we were meeting about seriously.

Note: If your workplace celebrates birthdays and you don’t want yours celebrated, just ask, they will almost certainly accommodate you.

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