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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#211

Post by brailsafe »

sitharus wrote: post #126
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Roughly speaking, a hybrid gets double the MPG of an ICE car, and a BEV gets double the MPGe of a hybrid. But BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel, when your whole neighborhood gets them it strains the grid, you are range limited, etc... My hunch is there are some laws or regs somewhere that kept hybrids from really taking off (o…

Don't most people already have a plug in their garage? All mine certainly have. There's no need to get full EVSE for most people, a 2.4kW outlet as found almost everywhere outside North America will easily handle daily driving needs for anyone who's not in a travelling job. Also if everyone in your neighbourhood turning on a space heater strains the grid you have bigger problems. Utilities have plenty of ways to solv…

> Don't most people already have a plug in their garage?

Good point, most people without garages should continue buying hybrid or ICE, because EVs aren't for them yet.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#212

Post by [deleted] »

kulahan wrote: post #38
rr808 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is ugly AF and there is no way I'd buy that over a Porsche. Zeekr 001 is prettier outside but inside still is terrible. https://www.datocms-assets.com/143770/1728613060-rectangle-4...

Calling it ugly is weird. It’s a copy-paste of a rolls Royce phantom, slapped on an SUV frame, with the cheapest possible interior they could design. There are much better ways to insult this garbage product. :)

[deleted]

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#213

Post by nielsbot »

pear01 wrote: post #206
melenaboija wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

Yes, not to mention the fact that Chinese EVs can't be sold here... protectionism for weak American companies that can't compete globally. We've gone from an automotive superpower and the land of Henry Ford to the government propping up automakers and depriving Americans of free choice. If Chinese cars would actually be allowed to sold here they would sell like Toyota Camrys.

Interesting that Canada agreed to break with the US on EV tariffs.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46648778

It's limited but I feel like Canada aligning themselves at all with China over the US is an interesting development.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#214

Post by nostromo »

pear01 wrote: post #206
melenaboija wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

Yes, not to mention the fact that Chinese EVs can't be sold here... protectionism for weak American companies that can't compete globally. We've gone from an automotive superpower and the land of Henry Ford to the government propping up automakers and depriving Americans of free choice. If Chinese cars would actually be allowed to sold here they would sell like Toyota Camrys.

Until very recently, tariffs on American cars sold in China were much higher than vice-versa. The new US tariffs were an attempt to even the playing field.

I think most people would agree that no tariffs would be good, but China is more protectionist than any other major economy, including recent changes in US policy.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#215

Post by randerson »

sklargh wrote: post #8

I think Porsche is really in trouble here. I’m not anti-EV but the electric Macan and Cayenne look awful. They are under equipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers (heck basically anything). Porsche sort of sold its soul for this tech-forward design but it doesn’t deliver any meaningful benefits, these cars don’t even have level 2+ highway cruise control. In the meantime I get a bunch of crap screens an…

I wanted to replace my gas Macan with the new EV one. After a test drive I decided to just keep the gas one.

As an EV it is excellent. But Porsche is known for engaging driver's cars, and without the visceral sounds and vibrations of an engine it is bland and boring. The flaws in a gas engine's power curve give it character. Letting the driver manage that power curve is fun. A perfectly linear sub-3s 0-60 with fake electric sport sound played through the speakers does nothing for me.

I'd have probably bought it at $75K, but at $125K it needs to be more special. Especially considering the rate at which they depreciate. Its not a surprise to me that their EVs aren't selling as well as hoped. The Taycan sure is pretty though.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#216

Post by nielsbot »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #203
CGMthrowaway wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Roughly speaking, a hybrid gets double the MPG of an ICE car, and a BEV gets double the MPGe of a hybrid. But BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel, when your whole neighborhood gets them it strains the grid, you are range limited, etc... My hunch is there are some laws or regs somewhere that kept hybrids from really taking off (o…

Every time an EV driver charges their car at home, a gas station loses a customer. Eventually this compounds and gas stations start closing. That accelerates the switch to EVs because gas becomes hard to find. Which accelerates gas station closures, and so on. The point at which it becomes impractical to drive a gas-fuelled car is approaching. It will hit different countries at different times, but it's there. 10 yea…

How has this played out in Norway? (If you know) They're at 90% EV market share, right?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#217

Post by bruce511 »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #165
sitharus wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't most people already have a plug in their garage? All mine certainly have. There's no need to get full EVSE for most people, a 2.4kW outlet as found almost everywhere outside North America will easily handle daily driving needs for anyone who's not in a travelling job. Also if everyone in your neighbourhood turning on a space heater strains the grid you have bigger problems. Utilities have plenty of ways to solv…

44 million US households have no garage, including ~2/3 of renters

Sounds like a market opportunity for kerb-side, low speed, charging points.

Not to mention parking garages for daytime parking at work.

Not to mention mall parking lots.

The garage is an obvious starting point, because your car spends a lot of time there, but there are lots of opportunities elsewhere.

Once upon a time 44 million households didn't have electricity. Things change.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#218

Post by fy20 »

coryrc wrote: post #182
andyst wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in the australian market theres often comparison between how BYD/(chinese brands) may unseat Tesla (as the scale EV first mover), but I haven't seen what I think is the prize, which is BYD want to take on Toyota as the de facto king of global car making. They want the whole car market, not just EV and are already setup to take that on.

Especially as Toyota seems structurally unable to create a good EV. They produced one completely bare-bones model 30 years ago and never expanded past that. At least they're keeping some knowledge of the parts by having PHEVs, but I don't think they're on the leading edge of anything. Maybe they don't need to be and can buy everything from other suppliers, but they're going to be doing a whole lot less than they curr…

Toyota hybrids are full hybrids however, not mild hybrids like other manufactures, so all you really need is a bigger battery and charger. My 10 year old RAV4 Hybrid (not plug-in) can deliver 160kW just from the electric motors, without the engine. That's 3x a Dacia Spring. They have the technology for motors and control electronics, and they know it works long term without issues.

Most of the European EVs are basically just electric city cars, unable to drive long ranges due to small batteries and limited fast charging. And most of them after 100,000km will need a new battery. Doesn't really fit in with Toyota's 'long term reliability' stance.

I can't blame Toyota for waiting for the technology to mature before they go all in on EVs. Plus they do have the bz4x / RX which are full EVs you can buy today.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#219

Post by petre »

protocolture wrote: post #188
bnchrch wrote: post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

>Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. I thought we were there already tbh. Chinese cars have gone from laughably bad to quality parity in less than a decade. Like even 2 years ago, I was still hearing "the paint the paint" as the last remaining issue. But I dont hear that anymore.

Have you seen the paint schemes on new Chinese cars? Wow. Embedded glitter, chameleon colors, while the European car industry is doing boring primer like paint schemes. I always joke that they applied clear coat onto primer. And that's on >60k models.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#220

Post by monero-xmr »

etempleton wrote: post #187
KnuthIsGod wrote: post #40

Global sales of Porsche, Audi, Mercedes and BMW brand ( BMW Group sales increased marginally, but includes) have all declined. The end is in sight for German cars as Chinese made electric cars take over. I have had several German cars. Never again ! Sticking to Japanese and probably Chinese cars in the future. German cars were decent once. Now they are notorious for poor long term reliability.

Porsche / Audi are selling a lot more cars then they were 10-15 years ago. I think they will be okay. Chinese brands will cut into all establish automaker sales, but the German cars have strong brands that symbolize luxury. Look at Land Rover. There are cars are completely unreliable and they are selling more than ever at increasingly ludicrous prices. I agree with you, but luxury car manufactures largely sell leases…

I am very much interested in electric cars that look like normal cars. I understand the battery changes things. But why they have to shit up the design of 75% of electric cars is nonsensical to me
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