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East Germany balloon escape

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211–220 of 324 posts

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One guy did use a plane to land in Red Square. Remember him?

Not to live there though, just as a "symbol of peace".

I'm not sure it worked much as a symbol of peace. He got sent to a Soviet prison/interrogation for a while which I'm sure was a laugh a minute.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#212

It is interesting how dictatorships for resourceless countries needed to keep the people in like east germany or czechoslovakia. But current dictatorships with natural resources like Venezuela or Iran let dissent go. It makes them more stable sadly.

As a Venezuelan, I think the difference is not the Natural Resources, or at least is not the main difference. In 2017, the shortages and economic crisis generated by 15 years of communist policies has pushed around 4 million people out, and then, the regime "elected" a Constitutional Assembly which has the power to create a new Constitution and to overrid any previously elected organism (as it was at the time the opo…

I can only speak of Czechoslovakia, but from 1968 to 1989 there was no ideology. After the soviet occupation, there was normalization era, that was explicitly about compliance with the regime, not about believe in communism.

I agree though that it is more complex, but for some reason, Czechoslovakia wanted to keep all the people and exploit their work, while Venezuela and Iran seems to let the people go in exchange for the regime stability.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#213
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One guy did use a plane to land in Red Square. Remember him?

He was mentally disturbed, which kinda proves the point. After returning to Germany, he stabbed a woman for rejecting his advances. Later, he was convicted of shoplifting, and a few years after that he was convicted again of selling stolen goods. Definitely a "character", even if medically sound enough to stand trial.

I didn't know about the stabbing bit. You'd have to be off your head to land a plane next to the Kremlin. He was lucky he wasn't shot down.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That wall is to keep people out from another state, not in.

After all, they kept Paul Robeson in by simply pulling his passport, no wall needed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Robeson#:~:text=A%20month...

I don't need to go to Wikipedia to read about Robeson. Guy became a Stalin fan and crumbled mentally when he realised the USSR was not what it claimed. Great singer though.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#215
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GDR seems to be forgotten/misunderstood by many people. Which is a pity because it serves a warning about mass public surveillance plans that keep rearing their ugly head, even in Germany.

People go on about surveillance but it's not really the problem compared to murderous dictatorships.

Murderous dictatorships are enabled by mass surveillance and personal data collection. Especially East Germany, which was obsessed with data harvesting on every individual and installed as many CCTV cameras as its budget and tech would allow. East Germany would be creaming itself over the panopticon we are walking into.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#216
post #199

I first read about this in Reader's Digest back in the eighties.

I'm not the only one then! :-)

I read about them in RD long before I saw the film, I think. It is an amazing achievement and I doubt most people could have pulled it off. Thinking about it now... You would have to wait until the wind was going in the right direction, and wouldn't change, and also be well away from the border to avoid patrols. They had luck on their side.

I think I saw the film in the late eighties/early nineties round about the time the Eastern Bloc was falling apart so it had less impact.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#217
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we? I’d say it’s pretty close, especially if you include every time that someone shrieks ‘that’s socialism,’ or ‘that’s communism’ every time any social programme is proposed. Eg: Shall we improve public healthcare?

> especially if you include every time that someone shrieks ‘that’s socialism,’ or ‘that’s communism’ But... why would you include that? They're certainly not discussions of the DDR.

We do have socialised medicine where I live and it is falling apart TBH. Never hear it compared to East Germany.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#218
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The greatest trick authoritarianism ever pulled [0] was convincing people it was competent, rational, or efficient. Putting young men into fresh uniforms to march in synchrony looks impressive, but in the background sycophancy rules while expertise is wasted, and people who could be improving harvests and preventing floods are slaving away in the "Office of Subversive Objects" trying to figure out the source of the g…

Meanwhile we put experts to work optimizing conversion and engagement metrics. A truly enlightened way of life we've built for ourselves.

> Meanwhile we put experts to work optimizing conversion and engagement metrics. A truly enlightened way of life we've built for ourselves.

I grew up in communist Czechoslovakia, and claims like this really bother me. As if it is somehow comparable to being forced to serve in the army of a dictatorship. What is wrong with working on optimizing conversion and engagement metrics? It can be interesting and useful. People are not forced to do it. It is just one of many jobs that one can do in a free society.

I believe that one of the reasons why authoritarianism seems to be on the rise in the US and around the world in general is that it has somehow become fashionable to belittle and disparage what we have in the West... and how good it is, despite its imperfections. I fear that we will only realize this once we have lost it.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#219
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes he was so cool. The plane is still in a museum. PS: He was dumb as hell too of course, and it was only due to incredible laxness of the air force that he was never shot down.

I'm not sure any countries really shoot down light aircraft unless it's an active war zone. They are not much of a threat and it's also hard to tell if they are there legally or not. You're more likely to get hassled when you land like the Ethan Guo guy ( https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c04rql923kdo )

Guo must have been a few sandwiches short of a picnic to try and fly to Antarctica unaided as well. Three year ban from Chile isn't long.

Re: East Germany balloon escape

#220
post #123

This true story moves us because it resembles much of human history, in which clever but powerless people struggle against morons -- morons who somehow gain control over a modern industrial state, then use that power to punish innocents who dare to assert simple human rights. People in Moscow, in Gaza, in Tehran, in Minneapolis, are all saying, "How can I rise above this? -- where's my balloon?" Too many morons. Too…

> Moscow, in Gaza, in Tehran, in Minneapolis Man, you really went ahead and tried to compare Minneapolis with Teharan. This is got me laughing out loud.

While the difference between the two may still be wide, it is a lot more narrow than it was a year ago. Some people find this concerning.
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