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Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

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Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like a lot of people keep falling into the trap of thinking we’ve hit a plateau, and that they can shift from “aggressively explore and learn the thing” mode to “teach people solid facts” mode. A week ago Scott Hanselman went on the Stack Overflow podcast to talk about AI-assisted coding. I generally respect that guy a lot, so I tuned in and… well it was kind of jarring. The dude kept saying things in this r…

I don't see a reason to think we're not going to hit a plateua sooner or later (and probably sooner). You can't scale your way out of hallucinations, and you can't keep raising tens of billions to train these things without investors wanting a return. Once you use up the entire internets worth of stack overflow responses and public github repositories you run into the fact that these things aren't good at doing thing…

> You can't scale your way out of hallucinations

You scale your way only out in verifiable domains, like code, math, optimizations, games and simulations. In all the other domains the AI developers still got billions (trillions) of tokens daily, which are validated by follow up messages, minutes or even days later. If you can study longitudinally you can get feedback signals, such as when people apply the LLM idea in practice and came back to iterate later.

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#212

I've yet to be convinced by any article, including this one, that attempts to draw boxes around what coding agents are and aren't good at in a way that is robust on a 6 to 12 month horizon. I agree that the examples listed here are relatable, and I've seen similar in my uses of various coding harnesses, including, to some degree, ones driven by opus 4.5. But my general experience with using LLMs for development over…

It feels like a lot of people keep falling into the trap of thinking we’ve hit a plateau, and that they can shift from “aggressively explore and learn the thing” mode to “teach people solid facts” mode. A week ago Scott Hanselman went on the Stack Overflow podcast to talk about AI-assisted coding. I generally respect that guy a lot, so I tuned in and… well it was kind of jarring. The dude kept saying things in this r…

To me this seems like a classic LLM defense.

A doesn't work. You must frontier model 4.

A works on 4, but B doesn't work on 4. You doing it wrong, you must use frontier model 5.

Ok, now I use 5, A and B work, but C doesn't work. Fool, you must use frontier model 6.

Ok, I'm on 6, but now A is not working as it good as it did on A. Only fools are still trying to do A.

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#213
post #203

> Claude can’t create good abstractions on its own LLMs definitely can create abstractions and boundaries. e.g. most will lean towards a pretty clean front end vs backend split even without hints. Or work out a data structure that fits the need. Or splits things into free standing modules. Or structure a plan into phases. So this really just boils down to „good” abstractions which is subject to model improvement. I r…

There's a difference between "can generate" and "can create [from scratch]". Of course LLMs can generate code that reflects common patterns in the stuff it was trained, such as frontend/backend splits, since this is precisely what they are trained to be able to do.

Coming up with a new design from scratch, designing (or understanding) a high level architecture based on some principled reasoning, rather than cargo cult coding by mimicking common patterns in the training data, is a different matter.

LLMs are getting much better at reasoning/planning (or at least something that looks like it), especially for programming & math, but this is still based on pre-training, mostly RL, and what they learn obviously depends on what they are trained on. If you wanted LLMs to learn principles of software architecture and abstraction/etc, then you would need to train on human (or synthetic) "reasoning traces" of how humans make those decisions, but it seems that currently RL-training for programming is mostly based on artifacts of reasoning (i.e. code), not the reasoning traces themselves that went into designing that code, so this (coding vs design reasoning) is what they learn.

I would guess that companies like Anthropic are trying to address this paucity of "reasoning traces" for program design, perhaps via synthetic data, since this is not something that occurs much in the wild, especially as you move up the scale of complexity from small problems (student assignments, stack overflow advice) to large systems (which are anyways mostly commercial, hence private). You can find a smallish number of open source large projects like gcc, linux, but what is missing are the reasoning traces of how the designers went from requirements to designing these systems the way they did (sometimes in questionable fashion!).

Humans of course learn software architecture in a much different way. As with anything, you can read any number of books, attend any number of lectures, on design principles and software patterns, but developing the skill for yourself requires hands-on personal practice. There is a fundamental difference between memory (of what you read/etc) and acquired skill, both in level of detail and fundamental nature (skills being based on action selection, not just declarative recall).

The way a human senior developer/systems architect acquires the skill of design is by practice, by a career of progressively more complex projects, successes and failures/difficulties, and learning from the process. By learning from your own experience you are of course privy to your own prior "reasoning traces" and will learn which of those lead to good or bad outcomes. Of course learning anything "on the job" requires continual learning, and things like curiosity and autonomy, which LLMs/AI do not yet have.

Yes, us senior meatbags, will eventually be having to compete with, or be displaced by, machines that are the equal of us (which is how I would define AGI), but we're not there yet, and I'd predict it's at least 10-20 years out, not least because it seems most of the AI companies are still LLM-pilled and are trying to cash in on the low-hanging fruit.

Software design and development is a strange endeavor since, as we have learnt, one of the big lessons of LLMs (in general, not just apropos coding), is how much of what we do is (trigger alert) parroting to one degree or another, rather than green field reasoning and exploration. At the same time, software development, as one gets away from boilerplate solutions to larger custom systems, is probably one of the more complex and reasoning-intensive things that humans do, and therefore may end up being one of the last, rather than first, to completely fall to AI. It may well be AI managers, not humans, who finally say that at last AI has reached human parity at software design, able to design systems of arbitrary complexity based on principled reasoning and accumulated experience.

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#214

I have several projects that counter this article. Not sure why, but I’ve extracted clean, readable, well-constructed, and well-tested code. I might write something up at some point, but I can share this: https://github.com/chicagodave/devarch/ New repo with guides for how I use Claude Code.

Interesting. So you put these into the project folder for Claude to follow?

I have zero issues with Claude improving from GitHub and feel like we should all help developers improve in using GenAI.

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#215

It's just amazing to me how fast the goal posts are moving. Four years ago, if you had told someone that a LLM would be able to one-shot either of those first two tasks they would've said you're crazy. The tech is moving so fast . I slept on Opus 4.5 because GPT 5 was kind of an air ball, and just started using it in the past few weeks. It's so good. Way better than almost anything that's come before it. It can one-s…

There are certain things/llm-phenomena that haven't changed since their introduction.

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#216
post #62
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will need the CEO to watch over the AI and ensure that the interests of the company are being pursued and not the interests of the owners of the AI. That's probably the biggest threat to the long-term success of the AI industry; the inevitable pull towards encroaching more and more of their own interests into the AI themselves, driven by that Harvard Business School mentality we're all so familiar with, trying to…

> You will need the CEO to watch over the AI and ensure that the interests of the company are being pursued and not the interests of the owners of the AI. In this scenario, why does the AI care what any of these humans think? The CEO, the board, the shareholders, the "AI company"—they're all just a bunch of dumb chimps providing zero value to the AI, and who have absolutely no clue what's going on. If your scenario a…

If we get to that point, there won't be very many CEOs to be discussing. I was just referring to the near future.

I think the honeymoon AI phase is rapidly coming to a close, as evidenced by the increasingly close hoofbeat sounds of LLMs being turned to serve ads right in their output. (To be honest, there's already a bunch of things I wouldn't turn to them for under any circumstances because they're been ideologically tuned from day one, but this is less obvious than "they're outright serving me ads" to people.) If the "AI bubble" pops you can expect this to really take off in earnest as they have to monetize. It remains to be seen how much of the AI's value ends up captured by the owners. Given what we've seen from companies like Microsoft with how they've scrambled Windows so hard that "the year of the Linux desktop" is rapidly turning from perennial joke to aspirational target for so many, I have no confident in the owners capturing 150%+ of the value... and yes, I mean that quite literally with all of its implications.

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#217
This is exactly what we found out a year ago for all AI builders. But what is the best way to convince early investors of this thesis? They seem to be all-in on just building everything from scratch end-to-end. Here is what we built:

https://engageusers.ai/ecosystem.pdf

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#218
post #62
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You will need the CEO to watch over the AI and ensure that the interests of the company are being pursued and not the interests of the owners of the AI. That's probably the biggest threat to the long-term success of the AI industry; the inevitable pull towards encroaching more and more of their own interests into the AI themselves, driven by that Harvard Business School mentality we're all so familiar with, trying to…

> You will need the CEO to watch over the AI and ensure that the interests of the company are being pursued and not the interests of the owners of the AI. In this scenario, why does the AI care what any of these humans think? The CEO, the board, the shareholders, the "AI company"—they're all just a bunch of dumb chimps providing zero value to the AI, and who have absolutely no clue what's going on. If your scenario a…

Humans have hands to pull plugs and throw switches. They're the ones guiding the evolution (for lack of a better word) of the machine, and they're the ones who will select the machine that "cares" what they think.

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#219

I don't think it's possible to make an AI a "Senior Engineer", or even a good engineer, by training it on random crap from the internet. It's got a million brains' worth of code in it. That means bad patterns as well as good. You'd need to remove the bad patterns for it not to "remember" and regurgitate them. I don't think prompts help with this either, it's like putting a band-aid on head trauma.

It's also rather like trying to learn flintnapping just by looking at examples of knapped flint (maybe some better than others), rather than having access to descriptions of how to do it, and ultimately any practice of doing it.

You could also use cooking as an analogy - trying to learn to cook by looking at pictures of cooked food rather than by having gone to culinary school and learnt the principles of how to actually plan and cook good food.

So, we're trying to train LLMs to code, by giving them "pictures" of code that someone else built, rather than by teaching them the principles involved in creating it, and then having them practice themselves.

Re: Claude is good at assembling blocks, but still falls apart at creating them

#220

I've yet to be convinced by any article, including this one, that attempts to draw boxes around what coding agents are and aren't good at in a way that is robust on a 6 to 12 month horizon. I agree that the examples listed here are relatable, and I've seen similar in my uses of various coding harnesses, including, to some degree, ones driven by opus 4.5. But my general experience with using LLMs for development over…

It feels like a lot of people keep falling into the trap of thinking we’ve hit a plateau, and that they can shift from “aggressively explore and learn the thing” mode to “teach people solid facts” mode. A week ago Scott Hanselman went on the Stack Overflow podcast to talk about AI-assisted coding. I generally respect that guy a lot, so I tuned in and… well it was kind of jarring. The dude kept saying things in this r…

On balance, there’s far more evidence to support the conclusion that language models have reached a plateau.
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