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What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

scotthelme.co.uk

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Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#211

Post by nop_slide »

mbesto wrote: post #52

It's wild how overpriced Tesla Powerwalls are. 16 kWh battery with all of the UL supported listings etc = $3300 [0] 13.5 kWh Tesla Powerwall is $12k~$15k You would get your return way back quicker. [0] - https://www.ruixubattery.com/product-page/lithi2-16-battery-... EDIT: As others have pointed out, powerwalls have inverters built in so it's not totally apples to apples. You can get a beefy inverter for $5k and it's…

You might find https://www.basepowercompany.com/ interesting, 25kwh battery for $700 down and $20/month

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#212

Post by lostapathy »

ozim wrote: post #166
thechao wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which would probably hae been another 3-5k if I could have found someone to do it. Yo. If you can find an electrician to stop by my house and turn a light switch off for less than 1000$, please inform me. I got a quote for 25k$ to install a system that size, and that price. City code has me by the balls: I can't modify my main panel without inspection, the inspector won't show up without a licensed electrician, and…

For 2500$ maybe you can pass the exam to become licensed yourself. Like do it over the weekends.

This right here - I have been investigating getting my own contractor license for DIY work on a property I own that must be permitted but city will only issue permits to licensed contractors. Took a practice test for the exam on a whim and nearly passed it without studying. Anybody seriously considering DIY'ing the install of something like this probably could get a license without a lot of work.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#213

Post by fullstop »

thechao wrote: post #136
scarecrowbob wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the math still maths, right? I am writing this off grid, using about 15kwh of batteries and a $1200 (6kw) inverter. My entire system puls panels and racking those panels, plus wiring some un-powered shacks was about $10k, though I did the work myself (which would probably hae been another 3-5k if I could have found someone to do it.

> which would probably hae been another 3-5k if I could have found someone to do it. Yo. If you can find an electrician to stop by my house and turn a light switch off for less than 1000$, please inform me. I got a quote for 25k$ to install a system that size, and that price. City code has me by the balls: I can't modify my main panel without inspection, the inspector won't show up without a licensed electrician, and…

2019 prices, but it was $487 to move a receptacle from under a window to the left of the window prior to making that window opening a french door.

In 2025 it was $1,100 to have an EVSE put in, including permit fees.

I'm in Pennsylvania.

Working with my township to get a permit / inspection was horrible -- they dragged their feet for months!

I have to believe that I am one of a few people in my township who have done this the "right way".

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#214

Post by nagisa »

itsamario wrote: post #178
jillesvangurp wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's going to be a bloodbath in that market in the next years. There are a lot of battery producers and most of them are not producing at full capacity. At the same time, manufacturing cost is dropping as well. Some battery makers are producing batteries at a cost level of around 60$ per kwh. At that cost, the 16kwh battery would come out below 1000$ (not the same obviously as the product price). Sodium ion might…

Companies like Schneider electric have systems for 25-50% the hyped brands but they don't provide batteries. This is the company that owns APC so its not like theyre new or untested. They just don't bother with brand awareness

Its weird to read about Schneider Electric not bothering with brand awareness. They aren't a household brand, sure, but they are well up there with Siemens and the like in industrial/b2b sector and their marketing budget is allocated accordingly.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#215

Post by lostapathy »

mbesto wrote: post #147
boplicity wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you need to replace the batteries? Do they fail outright at around 10 years, become unsafe, or do they just lose capacity? Curious! Even if they're at 50% capacity, they would still work, right? But if there are other considerations, especially safety ones, then that would definitely be a consideration. I'm not sure where to learn about this type of thing.

> Do they fail outright at around 10 years, become unsafe, or do they just lose capacity? LiFePO4 generally degrades to 80% capacity after 10 years, that's it. Safety isn't an issue.

At which point if you're short on capacity (but who knows how your demand might shift over a decade) it's not like you need to replace the original batteries to get that 20% back, you will probably be able to just expand the pack to bring the capacity up.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#216

Post by Veserv »

1980phipsi wrote: post #146
ortusdux wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, the original idea was that they would pull older batteries from circulation when their capacities dipped, and then repurpose them as powerwalls, an application where weight is irrelevant. This was back when they expected the batteries to plateau at ~80% capacity after a few years, and they had battery swapping on the roadmap, so they needed to plan for a future where they had a steady supply of batteries that c…

Any idea why swapping didn't pan out for Tesla? My understanding is they are doing that in China.

What do you mean? It did pan out for Tesla. Faking a single demo granted them 75% more ZEV emissions credit government subsidys [1]. That increased their profits by hundreds of millions of dollars.

All they had to do was go on stage and “swap” a battery without any clear video of the process and never “demonstrate” it ever again.

This is a company known for faking prominent demos like the FSD demo (where it crashed into a wall during filming), the solar roof demo (where they used regular roof tiles and claimed they were solar panels), the optimus demo (where they were teleoperated), etc.

Assuming they even did a battery swap, for which the official demo presents no clear video evidence, preferring overhead views over a close-up of the process or a glass enclosure to see the inner workings, it was at best a one-off custom-made device at the time. The one battery-swap station they claim existed has zero stories of any actual battery swaps, instead only evidence of it operating as a regular Supercharger [2].

[1] https://thewaroncars.org/episode-88-tesla-is-a-fraud-with-ed...

[2] https://slate.com/technology/2022/05/elon-musk-tesla-twitter...

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#217

Post by hectormalot »

vanc_cefepime wrote: post #123
latchkey wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having power when your entire neighborhood is off, priceless. [edit: yes, I assume you also get batteries, I know that solar alone doesn't magically power your house.]

Outside transfer switch and a 10-20kw portable generator is like $4-5k. It requires manual switching but it works for us in our hurricane-prone region. Helped with last years 1 in a 100 year winter storm in our southern region. Battery/solar doesn’t make sense in my opinion. Too many years to break even like this parent comment said and by the time you break even at 10 years, your system either is too inefficient or…

Context: I’m in the Netherlands. With taxes, power is around 25cent/kWh for me. For reference: Amsterdam is around a latitude of 52N, which is north enough that it only hits Alaska, not the US mainland.

I installed 2800Wp solar for about €2800 ($3000, payback in: 4-5 years), and a 5kWh battery for €1200 ($1300) all in. The battery has an expected payback time of just over 5 years, and I have some backup power if I need it.

I’m pretty sure about the battery payback, because I have a few years of per second consumption data in clickhouse and (very conservatively) simulated the battery. A few years ago any business case on storage was completely impossible, and now suddenly we’re here.

I could totally see this happen for the US as prices improve further, even if it’s not feasible today.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#218

Post by RussianCow »

lm28469 wrote: post #80
UltraSane wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat pumps are no more fragile than air conditioners.

Yes, and that's why I have none.

Not everyone lives in an area where they can afford not to have one, especially with climates changing and temperatures hitting higher/lower extremes.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#219

Post by Aurornis »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #165
mbesto wrote: post #52

It's wild how overpriced Tesla Powerwalls are. 16 kWh battery with all of the UL supported listings etc = $3300 [0] 13.5 kWh Tesla Powerwall is $12k~$15k You would get your return way back quicker. [0] - https://www.ruixubattery.com/product-page/lithi2-16-battery-... EDIT: As others have pointed out, powerwalls have inverters built in so it's not totally apples to apples. You can get a beefy inverter for $5k and it's…

There's going to be a bloodbath in that market in the next years. There are a lot of battery producers and most of them are not producing at full capacity. At the same time, manufacturing cost is dropping as well. Some battery makers are producing batteries at a cost level of around 60$ per kwh. At that cost, the 16kwh battery would come out below 1000$ (not the same obviously as the product price). Sodium ion might…

I'm not so sure. There are a lot of large-scale applications that would gobble up battery supply if it hit a certain price point. Grid-scale storage and datacenters, for example.

If prices for residential gear falls too much, I expect the manufacturers would just stop making it and focus on the commercial options instead.

Re: What a year of solar and batteries saved us in 2025

#220

Post by buckle8017 »

dns_snek wrote: post #131
baq wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your house burns down for any reason, not necessarily the DYI batteries, the insurance company will know anyway.

If the DIY work wasn't the cause for the fire it shouldn't matter, but I half-expect someone to inform me that US insurance companies can (legally) deny coverage for reasons unrelated to the accident.

How are you going to absolutely price that the batteries didn't start the fire or even just make the fire worse?

You can't and you will lose in court.

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