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Fahrplan – 39C3

fahrplan.events.ccc.de

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Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#211

Post by ranger_danger »

holowoodman wrote: post #184
saubeidl wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is what right wingers do speech that should be protected, but not what the "Zentrum fuer politische Schönheit" does? There's a certain hypocrisy in all right wing demands for free speech. They always mean freedom of their speech, not of people they disagree with.

There is quite a difference between "speech" and what ZfpS does. Their actions are often criminal, and not in the sense of "political crimes" but actually criminal acts that have nothing to do with speech or opinions. They have doxed people and called for violence against them, they have exhumed dead children and paraded around their corpses, stolen things, stuff like that.

The trouble comes when "speech" is arbitrarily defined and/or enforced to suit a narrative. The initial targets are always the lesser-favored extreme cases in order to have the least amount of people disagree with it. Then when the people are comfortable having them define what speech is acceptable, they slowly start eroding rights to include simply anything that they don't like.

That's why people say that taking away the rights of one group is like taking it away for everyone.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#212

Post by ranger_danger »

immibis wrote: post #202
holowoodman wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is quite a difference between "speech" and what ZfpS does. Their actions are often criminal, and not in the sense of "political crimes" but actually criminal acts that have nothing to do with speech or opinions. They have doxed people and called for violence against them, they have exhumed dead children and paraded around their corpses, stolen things, stuff like that.

Do you think KiwiFarms deserved to be banned from Cloudflare and all its other former service providers?

When CF continues to host 8chan and other groups that routinely trade monkey torture/zoosadism videos, but for some reason only KF goes too far... yea that doesn't make sense to me. I don't think they should be playing Internet police, and it's possible that (in the US at least) even doing so in the first place could nullify their Section 230 safe harbor protections, by attempting to moderate content that flows through them.

But also in KF's case I think it was not so much their content that got them "in trouble", but the people behind that crusade being so loud about it, like Liz Fong-Jones and Keffals, who relentlessly harassed every possible service provider even remotely related to any aspect of KF-related services at all, which included domain registrars, DDoS protection services, hosting/colo/DNS providers, IP space owners, upstream ISPs (and even Tier 1s), etc.

It was basically a master class in mentally-questionable retribution crusades for bringing their very ugly skeletons out of the closet and exposing all of their wrongdoings. LFJ was mad that their rape allegation was made public by KF, and Keffals was mad that their illegal bathtub-HRT scheme was made public.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#213

Post by brendoelfrendo »

saubeidl wrote: post #170
toxik wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could use exactly the same rhetoric to make the opposite argument.

Sure, but you would be denying reality. Look at the political reality in Europe and the US. How many countries are led by the far right? What about the far left?

Double-replying to apologize for my previous comment! I saw what I felt was a leading question and answered it with a leading question in kind, but I got turned around reading the thread and realized much later that I actually agree with you and my answer would to your question would probably be more similar to yours than to the person you were replying to.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#214

Post by petterroea »

Tepix wrote: post #165
petterroea wrote: post #150

Going to CCC changed my life last year and really opened up my eyes. So sad I'm not able to attend this year, but hoping I am able to return soon. Anyone who understands why technology cannot be viewed in a vacuum without considering the humans who use it will fit in immediately. Do yourself a favor and go.

If you can't make it to Congress go to one of the hacker camps in the summer.

I was at WHY and it was even better!

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#215

Post by immibis »

sunaookami wrote: post #203
immibis wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you at this conference?

You can ask the court that forbid repeating this made-up stuff ;)

Actually I can't ask a court whether you were at that conference without knowing your legal identity - care to share? And why should I expect the court to have a complete list of who was there, and to answer questions about that list? Seems much easier to ask you, and it's strange you don't want to answer.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#216

Post by immibis »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #206
saubeidl wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you would be denying reality. Look at the political reality in Europe and the US. How many countries are led by the far right? What about the far left?

Just because you don't see the "far left" doesn't mean it isn't there. Would you consider CDU in Germany to be conservative or even Christian right now? I've been far left all my life until I noticed how fake it all is. Sane goes for the right. now I'm just following truth. It's a lonely path. All the best & I hope you had a Merry Christmas as well.

CDU is not far left. It's reducing immigration, reducing social services, and removing bike lanes to make more room for cars. Not things the left is known for - but they are things the right is known for.

The best thing the right has done to advance its cause is to convince so many people that the words "right" and "left" don't have actual meanings.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#217

Post by jstrebel »

Lefties sympathizing with criminals, sharing their wealth distribution fantasies, agitating against competing political views. You've come a long way, CCC! The initial ideas was political, but with a clear focus on freedom of information, and the power to govern your own personal data.

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#218

Post by aleph_minus_one »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #198

Uncertain if this is OT, but given that the CCC is politically inspired organization, I hope not: One thing that still seems absent is awareness of the complete takeover of "gadgets" in schools. Schools these days, as early as primary school, shove screens in front of children. They're expected to look at them, and "use" them for various activities, including practicing handwriting. I wish I was joking [1]. I see two…

The C3's attendees are quite knowledgable in computing topics, so there is no need to bring coals to Newcastle.

The CCC is a German organization. In Germany, the general public already is quite skepctical of tablets in classrooms, so there is not such a necessity to inform the general public of something many people already think.

While there exist initiatives to use tablets in school in Germany (see for example [1]), these (in my opinion misguided) initiatives rather typically fail for financial reasons and because most teachers simply are incapable of using the technology. And, of course, tablets fail all the time.

So, in other countries this may be an important problem, but in Germany, any initiative for tablets in school already fails by the mere incompetence and the mills of bureacracy, so this is rather a potential topic for hacker conventions in other countries.

[1] https://www.heise.de/news/Schuelertablets-in-Niedersachsen-M...

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#219

Post by sunaookami »

immibis wrote: post #215
sunaookami wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can ask the court that forbid repeating this made-up stuff ;)

Actually I can't ask a court whether you were at that conference without knowing your legal identity - care to share? And why should I expect the court to have a complete list of who was there, and to answer questions about that list? Seems much easier to ask you, and it's strange you don't want to answer.

What are you talking about? Pure nonsense. Discussions about "great replacement" never happened, that's an undeniable fact proven by court records and news media are not allowed to repeat these claims (324 O 439/24, 324 O 524/24, 7 W 78/24).

Re: Fahrplan – 39C3

#220

Post by igneo676 »

saubeidl wrote: post #171
wincy wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If San Francisco is what you get when you embrace the left, and opposition to that is fascism, I think a lot of us have just decided we must be fascists.

San Francisco is a right-wing, pro-capitalist place. The left would be public ownership of the means of production.

Nah, this is just the No True Scotsman fallacy. San Francisco is FAR more left in their politics than most of the nation. For example, the new mayor described himself as:

> As a lifelong Democrat and San Franciscan, I am running for mayor to turn around the city I love

London Breed, the mayor before, was endorsed by explicitly Democrat or nonpartisan individuals (including Kamala Harris)

We could go on. What's ironic here is that this comment just reveals how disconnected this form of left wing politics is from the larger nation. They call even examples of the politics of their own "right wing" because they're so radically left

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