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The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

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Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#211

Post by FpUser »

AlecSchueler wrote: post #198
jeffjeffbear wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it really depends on what kind of anime you’re talking about Does it? If I draw a naked stick figure with boobs and say it is 14, is that morally wrong? At what point should a person care? Their point is that a drawing doesn't hurt people right?

> If I draw a naked stick figure with boobs and say it is 14, is that morally wrong? At what point should a person care? No and I'm sure every judge in Britain would throw that case out. > Their point is that a drawing doesn't hurt people right? It can in certain circumstances encourage a market or normalise abusive behaviour.

>"It can in certain circumstances encourage..."

Anything can be bad in "certain circumstances". They should go get busy with some real crime.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#212

Post by eastbound »

delusional wrote: post #180
eastbound wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to “drawing”, it’s also the loosely interpreted age that concerns me. Any drawing “deemed under 18” is just as criminalized as the actual crime. While there are many Instagram users who pretend to be above 18, many drawings of lewd acts, adding that the age is freely interpreted by judges… it’s a free field for general oppression.

> While there are many Instagram users who pretend to be above 18 Do you support robust and mandatory age verification to enforce existing rules on social media websites, like Instagram?

What? What’s the relation between your question and being safe while consuming ok-content?

I said “deemed”. The judge can decide anything even if the user really is above 18.

Not even to ask how you enforce age verification of characters in a drawing?

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#213

Post by Hikikomori »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #202
Jigsy wrote: post #153

The problem with "child abuse" is that some countries classify drawing things as "child abuse," or "rape," or "animal abuse." (Something I don't agree with.) I mentioned in another thread a few weeks back that I got raided by the British police last February for "uploading/downloading "illegal" anime artwork on one of the (anime) artwork websites we're criminally investigating." (Yes, the British police are criminall…

Honestly I have been wondering more and more about it but what stops websites from having a bot on signal/(session? although I hate the crypto stuff/ may I recommend matrix/simplex)? Like creating a bot on signal which has its own phone number (and sorry that you got raided) but I am pretty sure that the upload/download of anime artwork websites could be done through signal and the only thing I know about signal is t…

Manga used to be distributed on irc, you would message a bot and it woul initiate a file transfer.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#214

Post by delusional »

stavros wrote: post #190
delusional wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't really connect what you're saying here. I understand that you think drawing loli (I imagine) shouldn't be classified as pedophelia, but what does the law say? Part of living in a society is compromise. I don't believe that certain stretches of road close to my home should have a 50kph speed limit, but when I get a ticket I also accept that I'm in the wrong. If you're of the opinion that drawing children havin…

Wasn't his comment exactly "advocating for that position"?

I like this answer posted in the other leg of this thread:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46352710

I think an argument for the ambiguity of sexualized drawings of children must include specific examples. If he's not posting examples, I'm left assuming he probably knows they are indefensible.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#215

Post by FpUser »

robertlagrant wrote: post #193
idle_zealot wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can absolutely frame enshrining privacy and punishing those who would spy on you in a populist way. The messaging writes itself. The problem is that anti-power populism is considered extremely dangerous and tamped down on far more strongly than the most virulent bigots and fascists. Populism is how you win votes, but only one form of populism is allowed. For now, at least.

Fascism requires an authoritarian state. If you don't want the horrors of the 20th century, be it fascists with a world war, or socialism with even more deaths despite being in peacetime, you don't want authoritarianism to take hold, and you want to move power out of the state.

>"you don't want authoritarianism to take hold"

I think the EU is well on its way of accomplishing just that. Not that it is unique in aspirations

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#216

Post by JacWpthrowaway »

brabel wrote: post #205
elestor wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it makes a lot of sense. It likely encourages pedophilia, meaning people that consume such things will often adopt a wrong idea of what's okay. It's similar to the way that regular porn affects the brain. I understand where you're coming from, though and I get your point, but I feel if someone consumes a lot of media of a certain type, they begin to 'embody' that media. Just don't goon.

I am not sure there is evidence that this is the case. The argument sounds a lot like those made by conservatives against gay people. Somehow, in their view, homosexuality is also just a first step towards “anything goes”, including incest, pedophilia, even bestiality. Porn, in this view, should increase rape, right? But that’s absolutely not the case. People seem to calm down if they can satisfy themselves with just…

> Porn, in this view, should increase rape, right? But that’s absolutely not the case.

What evidence do you have that it absolutely doesn't? How would you even scientifically prove this? There are a whole lot of factors that contribute to rape or rape prevention.

Does modern sexual objectification and gratification increase the likelyhood that men will seek to actualize their fantasies? I believe it does.

From my own experience growing up watching porn from around 11-12 years of age and being an incel, when I was 21 I finally took things into my own hands and went to prostitutes to try and recreate those porn movies I was watching. I did not rape anyone but because of porn I learned that sex should be aggresive, that women respond "positively" to aggresive sex. I was sexually aggresive with the escorts I frequented, because of porn.

Over the span of 10+ years of doing this I even noticed shifts in sensibilities of escorts. Like young escorts these days by default gag when doing oral because this is what the market required in the past how many years but wasn't so common 10+ years ago.

For the record, in my experience, not even most escorts actually ENJOY aggressive sex. You would think they get used to it but trust me they don't. Aggressive sex is a perversion and I say this from experience not dogma.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#217

Post by TiredOfLife »

elestor wrote: post #195
vbezhenar wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of criminalising hand-made pictures? I just don't understand it. I could understand the point of criminalising child porn photos, as producing these photos obviously requires violating other laws (actually not obviously, as you can dress adult actors to look like children, but whatever). But things that are obviously drawn without any involvement of real children, what's wrong with them? Just keep th…

I'd say it makes a lot of sense. It likely encourages pedophilia, meaning people that consume such things will often adopt a wrong idea of what's okay. It's similar to the way that regular porn affects the brain. I understand where you're coming from, though and I get your point, but I feel if someone consumes a lot of media of a certain type, they begin to 'embody' that media. Just don't goon.

> It likely encourages pedophilia

It's like saying that pictures of gay people encourages homosexuality

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#218

Post by shlip »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #217
elestor wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say it makes a lot of sense. It likely encourages pedophilia, meaning people that consume such things will often adopt a wrong idea of what's okay. It's similar to the way that regular porn affects the brain. I understand where you're coming from, though and I get your point, but I feel if someone consumes a lot of media of a certain type, they begin to 'embody' that media. Just don't goon.

> It likely encourages pedophilia It's like saying that pictures of gay people encourages homosexuality

Or saying playing violent video games makes you violent, which sounds familiar...

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#219

Post by Saline9515 »

hdgvhicv wrote: post #37
holoduke wrote: post #7

I once liked the EU. Well still do it because of the east to travel without borders. But it's leadership is something dangerous and may shape to some form of dictatorship or entity that does not serve its people. But a small minority consisting out of some large companies.

The EU leadership is the leaders of the 27 sovereign countries Now you can argue there is a democratic deficit in those countries, sure.

No, the European Commission and the unelected bureaucrats behind it are the true leaders of the EU.

They are the only long lasting institution that can do time arbitrages (wait for the right presidency to push new regulations), they have the means to pressure individual MPs, and they are the ones holding the pen during the negociations between the parliament and the States. The EC is also the master of the legal agenda, the banana republic-style parliament can't decide which laws they vote.

Because the EC has little to no budget to spend, and its only tool is regulation (that doesn't require cost/benefit analysis btw), they...spend their day regulating. They are not constrained by execution either since the States are in charge of applying and dealing the regulations, however how detached from reality they are.

The EC bureaucrats come from a small elite, remote from the reality of the common man. Ursula Von der Leyen is a good example of this. Fun fact, a phd is required to become a EC bureaucrat, so many of them...just buy the services of a post-doc researcher to write it for them. I used to work with a colleague who did it as a side job.

Re: The Going Dark initiative or ProtectEU is a Chat Control 3.0 attempt

#220

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

Hikikomori wrote: post #213
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I have been wondering more and more about it but what stops websites from having a bot on signal/(session? although I hate the crypto stuff/ may I recommend matrix/simplex)? Like creating a bot on signal which has its own phone number (and sorry that you got raided) but I am pretty sure that the upload/download of anime artwork websites could be done through signal and the only thing I know about signal is t…

Manga used to be distributed on irc, you would message a bot and it woul initiate a file transfer.

IRC is such a simple protocol seeing its implementation in I have built bare minimum hello world bots in simplex and session and I think both had a lot of troubles to go through but if someone's interested, they can look at simplex for bot creation but they started to have client side verification/alert of content which admittedly is a very honeypot-alike activity/slippery slope itself.

Signal has some of the least controversies even though its centralized, Matrix is another good one and personally I sort of prefer matrix because all these other protocols require apps whereas matrix can work on top of a browser thus having more widespread adoption imo.

XMPP is another good protocol and at this point pardon me for yapping but I once saw someone break a nat using XMPP and using it to create website endpoint creation which was good too but personally I feel like signal is the most trustworthy overall. I wish someone can make signal's bot genuinely simple as telegram bot creation as there is a lot of potential

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