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The post-GeForce era: What if Nvidia abandons PC gaming?

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Re: The post-GeForce era: What if Nvidia abandons PC gaming?

#211

Post by fragmede »

wnevets wrote: post #171
TehCorwiz wrote: post #108

If they do it'll likely be part of an industry wide push to kill off the home-built PC market. It's no secret that MS and others want the kind of ecosystem Apple has and governments want more backdoor access to tech. And which mfg wouldn't want to eliminate partial upgrades/repairs. Imagine that the only PC you could buy one day has everything tightly integrated with no user serviceable or replaceable parts without a…

You're not thinking big enough. Their ultimate goal is gaming (or any computing really) available only in the cloud.

Stadia worked, when conditions were good, Geforce Now exists. No cheaters in multiplayer (though there are always new ones), it's a way to go. They're even doing a thing with cellphones as merely devices playing a full screen video stream that you can interact with.

Re: The post-GeForce era: What if Nvidia abandons PC gaming?

#212

Post by jayd16 »

cycomanic wrote: post #208

What I don't really understand is why the big data centre operators destroy their old cards instead of selling them off. What are the downsides for them? Apart from the obvious, i.e. it would bring in money, would it not also drive down the cost for brand new cards? I.e. Nvidia can currently overcharge dramatically because there is such a shortage. If the data centre operators would dump large numbers of used cards o…

Its just easier to write off the full value as e-waste than to try to turn a profit selling a meager amount of used hardware.

Re: The post-GeForce era: What if Nvidia abandons PC gaming?

#213

Post by cycomanic »

Bridged7756 wrote: post #43
sombragris wrote: post #33

I doubt that this would ever happen. But... If it does, I think it would be a good thing. The reason is that it would finally motivate game developers to be more realistic in their minimum hardware requirements, enabling games to be playable on onboard GPUs. Right now, most recent games (for example, many games built on Unreal Engine 5) are unplayable on onboard GPUs. Game and engine devs simply don't bother anymore…

True. Optimization is completely dead. Long gone are the days of a game being amazing because the devs managed to pull crazy graphics for the current hardware. Nowadays a game is only poorly optimized if it's literally unplayable or laggy, and you're forced to constantly upgrade your hardware with no discernible performance gain otherwise.

This is such a funny take, I remember all throughout the 90s and 00s (and maybe even 10s, not playing much then anymore) you often could new games on acceptable settings with a 1-2 year old high spec machine, in fact to play at highest settings you often needed ridiculously spec'ed machines. Now you can play the biggest titles (CP77, BG3 ...) on 5-10 year old hardware (not even top spec), with non or minimal performance/quality impact. I mean I've been playing BG3 and CP77 on highest settings on a PC that I bought 2 years ago used for $600 (BG3 I was playing when it had just come out).

Re: The post-GeForce era: What if Nvidia abandons PC gaming?

#214

Post by [deleted] »

thefaux wrote: post #142
tavavex wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one hell of a long shot. Are your views applicable to the rest of the entertainment industry? There's plenty of people wasting away in front on Netflix, after all. Or why just entertainment, any "useless" hobbies that are repeatedly done for fun but have no real productive output. Is any comparable "pleasurable" activity that also hooks a minority of people in an unhealthy way bad, or just gaming? But what's m…

I had a roommate who failed out of college because he was addicted to Everquest (yes, Everquest, and yes I am middle-aged). Your last paragraph is barely even hyperbolic. Do you think unemployed young men who live at home with their parents, do little to no physical activity, spending most of their time playing videogaming and/or trolling on the internet are not stuck destroying their bodies (and minds) in a spiral o…

[deleted]

Re: The post-GeForce era: What if Nvidia abandons PC gaming?

#215

Post by jayd16 »

sombragris wrote: post #33

I doubt that this would ever happen. But... If it does, I think it would be a good thing. The reason is that it would finally motivate game developers to be more realistic in their minimum hardware requirements, enabling games to be playable on onboard GPUs. Right now, most recent games (for example, many games built on Unreal Engine 5) are unplayable on onboard GPUs. Game and engine devs simply don't bother anymore…

Consoles and their install base set the target performance envelope. If your machine can't keep up with a 5 year old console then you should lower expectations.

And like, when have onboard GPUs ever been good? The fact that they're even feasible these days should be praised but you're imagining some past where devs left them behind.

Re: The post-GeForce era: What if Nvidia abandons PC gaming?

#216

Post by TehCorwiz »

wnevets wrote: post #171
TehCorwiz wrote: post #108

If they do it'll likely be part of an industry wide push to kill off the home-built PC market. It's no secret that MS and others want the kind of ecosystem Apple has and governments want more backdoor access to tech. And which mfg wouldn't want to eliminate partial upgrades/repairs. Imagine that the only PC you could buy one day has everything tightly integrated with no user serviceable or replaceable parts without a…

You're not thinking big enough. Their ultimate goal is gaming (or any computing really) available only in the cloud.

See, I wrote that out but then I thought, “Nah, that’s too conspiracy for this crowd.” But lo! Yeah. Not excited about the emerging status quo.

Re: The post-GeForce era: What if Nvidia abandons PC gaming?

#217

Post by zozbot234 »

mikepurvis wrote: post #129
sombragris wrote: post #33

I doubt that this would ever happen. But... If it does, I think it would be a good thing. The reason is that it would finally motivate game developers to be more realistic in their minimum hardware requirements, enabling games to be playable on onboard GPUs. Right now, most recent games (for example, many games built on Unreal Engine 5) are unplayable on onboard GPUs. Game and engine devs simply don't bother anymore…

They're not targeting high-end PCs. They're targeting current generation consoles, specifically the PS5 + 1080p. It just turns out that when you take those system requirements and put them on a PC—especially a PC with a 1440p or 2160p ultrawide—it turns out to mean pretty top of the line stuff. Particularly if as a PC gamer you expect to run it at 90fps and not the 30-40 that is typical for consoles.

1440p and 2160p is a total waste of pixels, when 1080p is already at the level of human visual acuity. You can argue that 1440p is a genuine (slight) improvement for super crisp text, but not for a game. HDR and more ray tracing/path tracing, etc. are more sensible ways of pushing quality higher.

Re: The post-GeForce era: What if Nvidia abandons PC gaming?

#218

Post by georgefrowny »

jayd16 wrote: post #212
cycomanic wrote: post #208

What I don't really understand is why the big data centre operators destroy their old cards instead of selling them off. What are the downsides for them? Apart from the obvious, i.e. it would bring in money, would it not also drive down the cost for brand new cards? I.e. Nvidia can currently overcharge dramatically because there is such a shortage. If the data centre operators would dump large numbers of used cards o…

Its just easier to write off the full value as e-waste than to try to turn a profit selling a meager amount of used hardware.

You don't "write off" the full value, you fiddle the amortization so they go to zero accounting value exactly when you want them to. They're playing this exact game with datacentre GPUs right now.

You can still have a tax implication when you sell the fully depreciated item but in theory it should only be a benefit unless your company has a 100% marginal tax rate somehow.

Of course it can cost more to store the goods and administer the sale then you recoup. And the manufacturer may do or even require a buyback to prevent the second hand market undercutting their sales. Or you may be disinclined to provide cheap hardware to your competitors.

Re: The post-GeForce era: What if Nvidia abandons PC gaming?

#219

Post by Mountain_Skies »

conductr wrote: post #204
upboats wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah they want a return to TV era where censors curtail content Everyone will own a presentation layer device. Anyone who can only afford the 1GB model can only get SNES quality visuals. Snow Crash and Neuromancer have displaced the Bible as cognitive framework for tech rich. Am working on an app that generates and syncs keys 1:1 over local BT and then syncs them again to home PC (if desired). The idea being cut out…

It’s not really about censorship though, it’s about having control over a rent economy where there is no ownership. It provides maximum profit potential

Different entities have different goals but are cooperating in making this happen so they each get what they want. Global corporations get guaranteed income streams from most of the population while governments and ideological groups get control over the flow of communication between people to ensure correct think.

Re: The post-GeForce era: What if Nvidia abandons PC gaming?

#220

Post by Mountain_Skies »

ogogmad wrote: post #177
wnevets wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not thinking big enough. Their ultimate goal is gaming (or any computing really) available only in the cloud.

Maybe then the year of Linux (or OpenBSD?) on the desktop would finally arrive. Maybe anti-trust could get used. Maybe parts could get scrapped from data centres. Interesting times they would be!

FOSS is more divided than ever, which is an interesting situation given the timing when they should be a solid place for individuals to turn to against the centralization of control. It's quite convenient that so many petty little wars have broken out across the FOSS landscape at just the right time.
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