Live data from Hacker News

Are we stuck with the same Desktop UX forever? [video]

youtube.com

211–214 of 214 posts

Re: Are we stuck with the same Desktop UX forever? [video]

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been absolute fucking gobs of UX changes to bikes in just the last 5 years. They just usually end up on mid range or higher end bikes. Obviously they don't fundamentally change the way a bike works, otherwise it wouldn't be a bike anymore.

Like what? What would you call a "UX change"?

I would call a "UX change" on a bike anything that significantly impacts your experience on the bike: comfort, speed, control, maneuverability, and even safety (as long as you know it makes you safer). And for those of us who maintain their bikes, durability and repairability.

In the last 20 years alone we've seen introduced or popularized:

Carbon frames, carbon wheels, disk/hydraulic brakes, expanded cassettes (2x11, 2x12), electric shifters, aerodynamic wheels, string spokes, and a boat load of different tires (for different levels of comfort, speed, durability, grip) for whatever you are doing. That's road bikes.

For mountain bikes you have all of that (minus aerodynamic stuff), dropper posts, 1x drive trains (1 chainring, 12 gears on the cassette, these are so good people want them on road/gravel bikes too) plus a slow evolution of geometry that completely changes how the bike feels on different terrain (also making them safer on dangerous terrain), plus a slow march from incredibly heavy builds to today's lightweight builds which are still more than capable of handling downhill. And in that same time-frame you'll see them going from 26" to 29" wheels, which results in a massive difference in the way the bike rides, and also the bike's ability to go over obstacles. And tubeless tires are now popularized on MTB, which means you can run lower pressures for better comfort and traction, and you also spend a lot less time futzing with holes in tubes.

Not to mention... E-bikes. There's just been so much going on. A lot of that might sound like it does a bunch of nothing, but all of it contributes heavily to how the bike feels and performs overall. Carbon frames and wheels for example aren't just about weight savings, they make the bike more rigid (which changes how it responds to inputs) and reduce vibration making the bike more comfortable overall. If you were somehow blindfolded and put on a bike from 20 years ago versus one from today you'd be able to tell. Doubly so for 40 years ago.

Re: Are we stuck with the same Desktop UX forever? [video]

#212
post #89

A) I'm not going to watch the video because it's hosted by goggle, and I'm not interested in being goggled. B) However, even without watching the video, it must be describing corporate product UI, because in the free software world, there is a huge variety of selections for desktop (and phone) UI choices. C) The big question I continue to come back to in HN comments: why does any technically astute person continue to…

because of perception and personal preference. To some it may be bland and boring, to others, the opposite; But many, I'd say the majority, are indifferent to some degree.

The classic computer experience hasn't changed much fundamentally and most users are content as long as their most used programs are pinned to the taskbar/dock

Re: Are we stuck with the same Desktop UX forever? [video]

#213
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Purely NLP with no screen Cumbersome and slow with horrible failure recovery. Great if it works, huge pain in the ass if it doesn't. Useless for any visual task. > head worn augmented reality Completely useless if what you're doing doesn't involve "augmenting reality" (editing a text document), which probably describes most tasks that the average person is using a computer for. > contact lenses Effectively impossib…

And most computers were entirely shit in the 1950s yet here we are today You must’ve missed the point: people invested in desktop computers when they were shitty vacuum tubes that blow up. That still hasn’t happened for any other user experience or interface. > it's good and versatile enough for what most people need to do with a computer Exactly correct! Like I said it’s a limitation of the human society, the capabi…

Most jobs would not be improved by a more complex interface. Cashiers don’t need a more complex interface. A doctor doesn’t need an AR headset for your yearly physical.

Most of society doesn’t need more complex interfaces. Much of society doesn’t actually even need computer interfaces all that much, they’ve only been foisted on them.

Re: Are we stuck with the same Desktop UX forever? [video]

#214

For desktops, basically, yes. And that's OK. Take any other praxis that's reached the 'appliance' stage that you use in your daily life from washing machines, ovens, coffee makers, cars, smartphones, flip-phones, televisions, toilets, vacuums, microwaves, refrigerators, ranges, etc. It takes ~30 years to optimize the UX to make it "appliance-worthy" and then everything afterwards consists of edge-case features, perso…

Computers are not a kitchen. They are clay, they are Lego, they are jungles of imagination. It's true that our current trajectory devolves their universality to a set of discrete isolated applications == multiplexing a set of appliances on one device.

That's an economic win sure, but it's tragic if we fail to unlock more of their flexibility for "end users"! IMHO that's the biggest unsolved problems of computer science: that it takes so much professional learning to unlock the real potential (and even that fails us programmers much of the time! How frequently do you say "I'll solve it myself" and the time invested is actually worth it? In the words of Steve Krouse we've not quite solved "End-programmer Programming" yet.)

I do want FOSS to follow through and offer live inspectors for everything, but no, I no longer believe users should "learn to code" as the salvation. We're nowhere near it being worth their time, we actually went downhill on that :-( Conversational AI and "vibe using" will play a role, but that's more like "adversarial interoperability", doesn't cover what I mean either.

I want cross-app interoperability to be designed in, as something everyone'd understand users want. I want agency over app state — snapshot, fork, rewind, diff etc. I want files back (https://jenson.org/files/), and more¹. I want things like versioning and collaboration to work cross-app. I want ideas and metaphors we haven't found yet — I mean it when I call it unsolved problem of CS! — that would unlock more flexible workflows for users, with less learning curve. The URL was one such idea - unlocking so much coordination by being able to share place[+state] in any medium.

I want software to be malleable (https://malleable.systems/) in ways meaningful to users. I want all apps to expose their command set for OS-level configurability of input devices & keyboard shortcuts (Steam Input on steroids). I want breakthroughs on separating "business logic" from all the shit we piled, so users can "view source" and intervene on important stuff, like they can in spreadsheets. (I want orders of magnitude smaller/simpler shit too.) I want the equivalent of unix pipes combinatorial freedom² in GUI apps. I want universal metaphors for automation, a future not unlike Yahoo Pipes promised us (https://retool.com/pipes) though I don't know in what shape. I want previewable "vector actions", less like record-macro-and-pray-the-loop-works more like multiple cursor editing. I want more apps to expose UX like PhotoShop layers, where users are more productive manipulating a recipe than they'd be directly manipulating the final result. (https://graphite.art/ looks promising but that's again for visual stuff; we need more universal metaphors for "reactive" editing... I want an spreadsheet-like interface to any directory+Makefile. I want ability to include "formulas" everywhere³.) I want various ideas from Subtext (https://www.subtext-lang.org/retrospective.html).

I want user access to the fruits of 100% reproducibility, including full control of software versions (which are presently reserved to VM/Docker/Nix masters). I want universal visibility into app behavior — what it accessed, what it changed on your computer/the world, everything it logged. Ad blockers actually achieve 2 ways to inspect/intervene: starting from the UI (I don't want to see this), and starting from network behavior (I don't want it to contact this), and both give users meaningful agency!

¹ I highly recommend following https://alexanderobenauer.com/ for his "Itemized OS" research ideas. His shared work with Ink & Switch https://www.inkandswitch.com/embark/ is a tantalizing demo too. ² http://conal.net/blog/posts/tangible-functional-programming-... was intriGUIng but still too nerdy for fitting naturally into end-user workflows. (But if you like such nerdy, https://www.tandisgame.com/ is somewhat related & fun) ³ https://calca.io/, https://worrydream.com/ExplorableExplanations/

Post reply on HN