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DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

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Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#211

Post by knowitnone3 »

jyscao wrote: post #172
qoez wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Projection. China does not even try to export their ideologies to the rest of the world who they see as clearly different culturally. The “west” OTOH does not have a good track record of that.

China certainly does export their ideologies by telling the world Taiwan is part of China and telling others to not recognize Taiwan as a country. They also have major if not direct influence on Myanmar's civil war. North Korea. Let's not forget the taking land(India, tibet) and extending their borders with man-made islands so they can extend their fishing territories. that's a great track record. you're not biased at all.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#212

Post by hinkley »

dontwannahearit wrote: post #193
hinkley wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that was the British? We are just getting over hating them ourselves.

A quick read of some British press and you'll realize that the British are going through their own self-hate moment, so everyone is aligned. This is what living in the ashes of an empire does to you. Will come for the USA in time.

Already ahead of you there sport. November 2016.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#213

Post by PunchyHamster »

MangoToupe wrote: post #140
nostrademons wrote: post #119

I thought this was common knowledge. DeepSeek’s Wikipedia entry says that they trained all their models on Nvidia chips procured before the U.S. embargo to China on them. It wouldn’t surprise me if they continued acquiring them through, well, less than legal means. I also read somewhere (not Wikipedia) that they trained on ChatGPT, Claude, and Gemini queries, basically feeding in the output of competitor’s LLMs as tr…

> less than legal means. This is an absurd concept when it comes to international trade. Even intellectual property is mostly meaningless outside a state. Of course people will evade sanctions; what is the us going to do, invade singapore or malaysia?

The companies it "stole" from broke the law in their own country while acquiring the training data; frankly sanction avoidance is lesser and arguably not even their (it's the people in US that smuggle them, nothing breaking china law afaik) crime

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#214

Post by verdverm »

dlisboa wrote: post #112
pembrook wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that a fair playing field for everyone would be the ideal state. But let's not pretend China doesn't use their influence to keep other countries down as well, and let's not pretend they allow a fair playing field for foreign competitors domestically either. The US would not have imposed these targeted sanctions if China simply wanted to fairly compete in the marketplace.

The US sanctions have nothing to do with free market maximalism. I thought that was quite obvious historically and specially now. They've imposed tariffs on literally every country on the planet.

Tariffs are applied to countries that we are "ripping off", if King Donald's definition is used consistently for every country. If we had a surplus, you still get a 10% tariff that Americans have to pay...

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#215

Post by epolanski »

ebbi wrote: post #163
sofixa wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whoa there, Bloomberg; just because the USA bans the sale of something to your country doesn't make it banned in your country. Many Americans, including their government, seem to think that US laws apply globally. They have extradited Ukrainian men from Poland because that Ukrainian was running a torrent website (illegal in the US, not illegal in Ukraine nor Poland). They tried getting an Australian extradited from…

The same government that runs Guantanamo prison, known for it's illegal torture practices and imprisoning people with no charges? Can't be!

Fun fact, when US prisoner of wars were water boarded by the Japanese, these got death sentences.

When a US soldier was photographed in Vietnam waterboarding a vietnamese PoW he got 22 years of prison.

Then came 2002 and rule of law stopped applying.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#216

Post by hinkley »

vel0city wrote: post #132
hinkley wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where does nvidia manufacture those chips?

The Republic of a China, not the People's Republic of China. You might not legally be able to identify the difference in your jurisdiction.

Right. I am a TSMC shareholder. I know this story.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#217

Post by epolanski »

tonyhart7 wrote: post #42
Shin-- wrote: post #10

Good. Unsurprising (well, known), but good. In fact, the world would be a better place if the US would not use their influence to try to keep other countries down.

"In fact, the world would be a better place if the US would not use their influence to try to keep other countries down." acting like china wouldn't doing the same thing to other country if they ever weld such position every great power would do the same thing to defend their position, its not unique to the US. only because current incumbent power is we see things this way

When china will do it, I'll judge them for it.

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#218

Post by zapataband2 »

ok123456 wrote: post #8

CIA disinformation campaigns notwithstanding, maybe accept global competition, open-source models, and the fact that whatever advantage OpenAI had was fleeting and mostly squandered at this point. The tendency of the rate of profit to fall is especially brutal if you've never made a profit.

[dead]

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#219

Post by PunchyHamster »

echelon wrote: post #147
rkagerer wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Meta are probably the only two companies that have a right to license their training data For the sake of someone unfamiliar... Why is that? Did they pay teams of monkeys to generate their own, novel training data? Or gain explicit, opt-in permission from users who entrust them with their files/content?

> For the sake of someone unfamiliar... Why is that? I edited my comment, but basically they both own massive social media properties (YouTube, Instagram, Facebook) or file upload sites (Google Drive, Google Photos, Gmail) and their ToSes grant them these rights. You accept these terms when you use their services. That's not great, but we are getting free services. It's in the terms. It's a whole lot better than just…

Facebook stole copyrighted material well above their own and admitted to it. It's not just "we took our users data", its "we literally downloaded torrent with 81 terabytes of books and used that for training".

Google most likely did something similar, just using books they already had indexed in Google Books, and probably by still seriously violating any reasonable notion of copyright

Re: DeepSeek uses banned Nvidia chips for AI model, report says

#220

Post by PunchyHamster »

Andoryuuta wrote: post #125
kazinator wrote: post #67

> chips that are banned in the country > The US bans the sale of these advanced semiconductors to China Whoa there, Bloomberg; just because the USA bans the sale of something to your country doesn't make it banned in your country.

I believe it is very much a two-way ban, depending on the specific chips [0]. [0]: https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2025/9/17/china-bans-tech-...

IIRC they ban companies that got funding from china's government. i.e. they don't want their investment in AI to go to NVIDIA but to local chipmakers
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