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The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

aaronstannard.com

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Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#211

Post by phil21 »

venturecruelty wrote: post #139
celeritascelery wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most medical care is not an immediate emergency. If I could compare MRI prices and it would impact how much I pay (either as an insurance copay or out of pocket) I would absolutely do that. But I have no opportunity to do that so there is not price feedback like there is in a market.

Sorry, this is simply not true. Every 1-3 years, I get a simple diagnostic procedure to make sure I don't get cancer. Without it, I'm at a very real risk of developing cancer that would quickly kill me. There is no universe in which it doesn't cost around $10,000. None. It is simply impossible for me to get out of paying that. My options are: 1. Use insurance, and hopefully it's covered. 2. Pay out of pocket. 3. Skip…

Many of those “simple diagnostic procedures” are a tenth of the cost if done outside of insurance out of pocket. MRIs are one of them.

My routine blood work done via my doctor bills something like $1600 to my insurance every other year or so - but it do it on my own outside of the medical system for about $180 every six months.

No one should have to do this for necessary care - but once you get into things not typically covered by insurance like plastic surgery or LASIK the true costs are generally rather reasonable.

A whole shadow ecosystem for “health hackers” or whatever you might want to call it exists where standard medical stuff is 10% of the cost if paid out of pocket and through alternative prescribers. It’s a small subset of all available medical items, but the difference in true cost is illuminating.

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#212

Post by kylehotchkiss »

xyzelement wrote: post #209
Apreche wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not the car seats that are the contraception, it is the cars themselves.

What does that mean? Plenty of people have been conceived in the backseat, and some in the front. But seriously, what are you talking about?

probably some anti-suburb argument

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#213

Post by waterTanuki »

peter422 wrote: post #112
BeetleB wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 15 out of the top 50 and 4/6 top hospitals in the world are in the US Outliers do not say much about the overall quality of healthcare in a country. Rather obvious lesson in statistics. Reminds me of the Russian mathematician who moved to the US after the fall of the Soviet Union. Most of his essays were criticizing American students, but in one essay he was quite frank: Russians who graduate with math degrees are…

Perhaps my language was too imprecise. My argument is that specifically the best care in the US is the best in the world. We have the best doctors and the best technology and the best treatments. This is not completely universal but it is also generally accurate. Whether or not this care is accessible or the median quality is care is good, that is different. I’m just saying we do get something for the money, it’s not…

This is a highly recycled talking point that only applies to people lucky enough to live in the vicinity of Standford, UCLA, Mass Gen, Cleveland Clinic, or Johns Hopkins AND afford a visit and is extremely dismissive of the millions of other Americans who can't. Rural hospitals have been shuttered and some people have even been turned away at emergency rooms now. This claim simply does not match up to reality, no matter how many graphs you put together.

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#214

Post by peter422 »

AstroBen wrote: post #129
peter422 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps my language was too imprecise. My argument is that specifically the best care in the US is the best in the world. We have the best doctors and the best technology and the best treatments. This is not completely universal but it is also generally accurate. Whether or not this care is accessible or the median quality is care is good, that is different. I’m just saying we do get something for the money, it’s not…

So you're saying the US optimizes entirely for the best of the best care, without regard for what happens to the 2nd tier? (that the majority of the population actually use)

I think at least the median citizen in the US has very good access to the best possible care. It may or may not be affordable but you can get it.

And yes, that is what I think we optimize for.

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#215

Post by evanelias »

Aaronontheweb wrote: post #168
evanelias wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make sense to me. Are you saying your health insurance premiums would be $0 if you weren't planning on having children?

Did you try reading the lengthy section of the article where I answered your question?

I skimmed your 2400-word article a second time just now, and I still don't understand why your math is allocating 100% of your family's health insurance premiums to childbirth. And now I additionally don't understand your abrasive tone in answering this fairly straightforward question.

Multiple commenters are raising this point, so perhaps you should consider that you aren't conveying this information well?

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#216

Post by kylehotchkiss »

elliotto wrote: post #203

Many countries have financial incentives provided to its citizens to have children. Requiring half of a citizens median salary to be given to a faceless middleman to provide this service seems untenable. I cannot imagine a society that does this would be able to survive.

When your country is led by a person who seems to find children and marriage inconvenient, you're bound to see that mentality propagate throughout everyday life

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#217

Post by machomaster »

BeetleB wrote: post #114
Aaronontheweb wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pay that at least much for my family, hence why I used it

Consider changing your plan? I pay $70/mo for 2 phone lines. Unlimited everything (well, OK, 5 GB data cap before slowing down).

5GB data cap is ridiculously low. Might as well only count the slow speed.

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#218

Post by orwin »

jopsen wrote: post #141
hollandheese wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The quality of health care in the US is significantly higher than anywhere else in the world. Yeah, I'm gonna need a citation for that. Because it sounds like a health insurance propoganda rather than the actual truth.

I tried an American PPO with $10 co-pay and no deductibles. It was awesome :) Nobody could tell me what anything would cost, or if the insurance would cover it. But I always ended up paying $10, whether it was a few pills or an expensive MRI I didn't need. Oh, yeah the downside is you can accidentally convince your doctor to get procedures you don't need. Health care in Denmark is decent. But I've been told, no when…

My sister used to cook on private Yachts in the Mediterranean, and mingle with that part of the population that pay 3-5k/month for private insurance, helicopter evacuation and all that. I'm pretty sure they can ask their clinics any unnecessary tests they want, too.

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#219

Post by jmward01 »

I have a discussion with my mother often. I tell her to keep a reasonable buffer of money in her bank account and then spend every single $ beyond that. Why? Because when she hits end of life, or even before then when she hits any number of inevitable age related issues, medical bills will take every penny she has and then go for more after that. My family pays even more a month than OP.

Healthcare is reaching for the point of neutrality where the value it provides exactly equals the cost they are charging. This is what happens when the only signal they get is a money related one. Nation after nation has shown that healthcare elsewhere can be better and far cheaper. Not perfect, but better and also not out of control. The real question isn't 'how do we fix healthcare' but instead, 'how do we remove the cancer in our system that is blocking the obvious fixes we see actually working all over the world'.

Re: The healthcare market is taxing reproduction out of existence

#220

Post by AstroBen »

hn_acc1 wrote: post #198
AstroBen wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mint or US Mobile are ~$15-20 a month. You're massively overpaying

Do they come with free mid-tier phones? What if you need 4-5 lines? What if, as a CEO, he needs a better plan than "basic prepaid, lowest-priority-subject-to-throttling"?

And what if the CEO needs international numbers across all continents?

What if the CEO needs to supply an entire 1,332 person company with business phones?

What about an assistant to answer them! What if we're sleeping!

Oh god!

But just to put my comment in context, here is what he said:

> Having a $200/mo smartphone is now a participation cost for many things such as getting access to your banking information remotely, medical records, and work / school.

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