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Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

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Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#211

Post by JuniperMesos »

ffsm8 wrote: post #189
thiht wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Bad guys can't use it" is per definition incompatible with free software It's incompatible with 1 definition of free software. More and more developers are unhappy with this definition.

No, the devs aren't unhappy with this definition. The ceos that want to market their software as open source are ಥ ‿ ಥ

I'm a software dev and I do not consider anti-freedom-0 source available software to be free software in any meaningful way. If the original author can tell me I'm not legally allowed to use their software unless I hold to a poltical standard they impose, then the software might as well be proprietary.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#212

Post by ffsm8 »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #211
ffsm8 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the devs aren't unhappy with this definition. The ceos that want to market their software as open source are ಥ ‿ ಥ

I'm a software dev and I do not consider anti-freedom-0 source available software to be free software in any meaningful way. If the original author can tell me I'm not legally allowed to use their software unless I hold to a poltical standard they impose, then the software might as well be proprietary.

I think you misunderstood my comment, which is understandable as it was double negative

I was pointing out that devs are perfectly fine with the official definition of free software - and the only ones wanting to extend it further are people that wish to incorrectly label their software as open source - which usually are CEOs of companies which want to portrait their closed software as open for marketing reasons.

IANAL, but I think your cited example would not fall under the open source label either. And all devs I know would prefer the definition of the term to be kept as is, making it not open source.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#213

Post by lelanthran »

charles_f wrote: post #20
sirodoht wrote: post #14

Free software is about freedom. Restricting it from anyone means it's not free. There is no requirement that we must create free software but if it's called free I think it should always have the basic qualities of freedom; not only when it fits our purposes and our values.

> shift the default in open source from “it’s free for anyone to use” to “please don’t use this if you’re evil” Point the author makes is precisely that they don't want to do free software, and they'd like to convince you not to do free software

> Point the author makes is precisely that they don't want to do free software, and they'd like to convince you not to do free software

Sure, but they are not suggesting any practical alternative by issuing a license that essentially boils down to "Please don't use this if you are evil".

Saying that the author has an almost childlike understanding of what the word "evil" means is something of a slur against actual children - I've got a 6 year old who understands subjective morals better than this author does.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#214

Post by Towaway69 »

gus_massa wrote: post #169
Towaway69 wrote: post #108

Is there something like the societal license where you can select different levels of harm: a) can be used to kill people b) can only be used to harm people c) can only be used for animal testing d) no harm should come to any living creature, neither in thought nor action. Something like the creative commons license just for evil. I like to use non enforceable license such as “don’t do evil” license because it causes…

> d) no harm should come to any living creature Can corn farmers use it? Can it be used in a factory that makes anti-mosquito nets?

Sure why not.

Many licenses are used incorrectly or aren't abided by simply because the rights holder does not have the financial means to sue. Why should that be different here.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#215

Post by Towaway69 »

smitty1e wrote: post #199
Towaway69 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Errrr there is currently a worldwide upswing in nationalism. Oh that’s fine because it’s not Nazis but Neo-Nazis - the new kind. Thankfully history doesn’t repeat itself. Sorry for getting snarky.

Is there a differentiation between nationalism and patriotism? I happen to think that the Founders had a (generally) better set of ideas in 1787, and that those ideas are being replaced by ersatz slogans.

It’s a fine line and there must be a difference, otherwise there won’t be two words.

How the founders relate to adolf is beyond me. OTOH some would argue adolf was being patriotic (mostly these are on the conservative side of life), others say he was a nationalist (these tend to be left spinning), i just say adolf was an evil human being.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#216

Post by djao »

berdario wrote: post #188
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the perspective of decreasing income inequality on a global scale, when multinationals fire workers in developed countries and replace them with lower-paid workers in developing countries, that is a very good thing, since people in developing countries need the jobs more. I would be skeptical of any license which privileges co-ops over multinationals for that reason. Co-ops are likely to reinforce existing globa…

I think there's a kernel of truth in what you said, but you're also talking about avoiding accidental "income inequality" in this comment, and "economic stagnation" in the other. It seems like you might've moved the goalpost a bit... At the end of the day: any entity that works for the public good (be it a co-op, a non-profit or a state owned enterprise[1]) would be a better recipient of the free labour provided by f…

Goalposts are the entire problem. I read the original article ... Holy wow, undefined goalposts!

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#219

Post by throwawaypath »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #207
bloudermilk wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not wrong, but arguments like this ignore the point. For many authors and maintainers, ‘free software’ and ‘open source’ as traditionally defined result in unsustainable outcomes. The original article cites articles explaining several such issues. Many people in the software industry are looking for new licensing models that take these systemic issues into account. It’s the ecosystem evolving to address curren…

Those "many people" can go ahead and come up with their own brand name for their "new licensing models" instead of hijacking existing ones. The only reason they so insistently want to re-define "free software" and "open source" to include their licenses is to ride on the goodwill associated with them for personal profit; they criticize free riders while themselves attempting to hitch a free ride on the FOSS label.

It's entryism, "long march through the institutions", etc. Glad we're slowly waking up to the far-leftism that's left many software projects and communities dead in its wake.

Re: Stopping bad guys from using my open source project (feedback wanted)

#220

Post by smitty1e »

Towaway69 wrote: post #215
smitty1e wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a differentiation between nationalism and patriotism? I happen to think that the Founders had a (generally) better set of ideas in 1787, and that those ideas are being replaced by ersatz slogans.

It’s a fine line and there must be a difference, otherwise there won’t be two words. How the founders relate to adolf is beyond me. OTOH some would argue adolf was being patriotic (mostly these are on the conservative side of life), others say he was a nationalist (these tend to be left spinning), i just say adolf was an evil human being.

One possible distinction is found in that fact that Nationlism is a Procrustean mold to which all must conform, whereas Patriotism still respects individual expression and dissent.
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