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210 IQ Is Not Enough

taylor.town

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Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough

#211

Post by jacquesm »

danans wrote: post #135
lordnacho wrote: post #96

People think of intelligence as some sort of magic. They ascribe all sorts of ability to intelligence, as if being smart should make you influential. But why should that be? If you're a scientist, you are dependent on getting funding to do experiments, and the experiment showing something interesting. Neither of these things is very connected to intelligence, beyond that low IQ people will not be likely to get to the…

> If you're an entrepreneur, you also have to do a bunch of things that are more social than smarts High social aptitude is "smarts". It has arguably been more central to our evolution, survival, and even advancement than "book smarts".

It would be highly surprising if it was any different, given that books have not been around long enough for us to begin to adapt to their existence in an evolutionary manner. They'll be long gone before we could have.

Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough

#212

Post by jdefr89 »

programjames wrote: post #60
827a wrote: post #4

The "world's smartest man" very recently predicted on X that Bitcoin would hit $220k by the end of the year. [1] Here's the thing: IQ probably doesn't mean much of anything. But it is one of only a handful of ways we have to benchmark intelligence. The training of AI systems critically requires benchmarks to understand gain/loss in training and determine if minute changes in the system is actually winging more intell…

> What I deeply believe is: We're never going to invent superintelligence, not because its impossible for computers to achieve, but because we don't even know what intelligence is. Speak for yourself, not all of humanity. There are plenty of rigorous, mostly equivalent definitions for intelligence: The ability to find short programs that explain phenomena (compression). The capability to figure out how to do things (…

Ok.. Let’s ask a different question. Assuming development of super-intelligence is possible.. How do you measure it? What criteria satisfies the “this is super intelligence”? You honestly sound like most pseudo-intellectuals I hear discussing this very topic..: Ironic how you think you’re the brilliant one and it’s others who are stupid… Actually not really ironic a fool doesn’t know he is a fool.

Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough

#213

Post by programjames »

axxto wrote: post #204
programjames wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I purposefully do not give out methods to measure intelligence, because people can train on them. I knew you wanted that, but that does not mean you get what you want. I also find it strange how you expect me to be empathetic in a way that makes you feel good about yourself, when you deserve no such compassion after pulling the dark arts on me.

That's ok, me and my "dark arts" will have to make do without your "compassion", somehow. And the world will have to make do without "training" on your secret "methods to measure intelligence", somehow. I don't appreciate your expletives in your original unedited post, by the way, but the fact that you lost your temper is once again proof of something . You sound young, so I hope one day you "find a short program" to…

> I don't appreciate your expletives in your original unedited post, by the way, but the fact that you lost your temper is once again proof of something.

It was the first edit where I added them, since I could not reply to your post, and I removed them once I could reply. Yes, I lost my temper. You did too (and first)... you're just less honest and put up a facade of politeness.

> And the world will have to make do without "training" on your secret "methods to measure intelligence", somehow.

Is the goal here to provoke me enough to get what you want? lol. Maximally adversarial.

Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough

#214

Post by programjames »

jdefr89 wrote: post #212
programjames wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I deeply believe is: We're never going to invent superintelligence, not because its impossible for computers to achieve, but because we don't even know what intelligence is. Speak for yourself, not all of humanity. There are plenty of rigorous, mostly equivalent definitions for intelligence: The ability to find short programs that explain phenomena (compression). The capability to figure out how to do things (…

Ok.. Let’s ask a different question. Assuming development of super-intelligence is possible.. How do you measure it? What criteria satisfies the “this is super intelligence”? You honestly sound like most pseudo-intellectuals I hear discussing this very topic..: Ironic how you think you’re the brilliant one and it’s others who are stupid… Actually not really ironic a fool doesn’t know he is a fool.

I literally gave you the criterion. You can measure, "I have this model that is supposed to compress data. I have this data. Does it compress the data into fewer bits than other models? Than humans?"

Or, "I have this game and this model. Does the model win the game more often than other models or humans?"

Or, "I have this model that takes in states in an environment and outputs actions. I have this environment. Does the actions it outputs have a higher discounted future entropy than other models or humans?"

Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough

#216

Post by jmull »

moi2388 wrote: post #208
jmull wrote: post #118

IQ has an enduring mystique, but before getting to excited by it, people should ask themselves a question: Does "IQ" measure something particularly useful or meaningful? (I think, at best, it's a very incomplete measure of something quite vague and ill-defined.)

Yes. It correlates strongly with problem solving abilities on most tasks, predicts health outcomes, educational outcomes, career outcomes and finances all pretty significantly.

I don't see the particularly useful/meaningful part here.

Who knows what you're referring to, but generally IQ tests measure general mental abilities on things society generally finds good. That's fine, but general education does the same in far more detail and comes with a robust achievement measurement (grades, and graduation/degrees).

IQ competes with other measures that exist anyway and comes up short.

Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough

#217

Post by jacquesm »

tetris11 wrote: post #52
stego-tech wrote: post #15

A really good litmus test of individual perspective and maturity, here. Already seeing comments nitpick specific arguments or points, which is itself the trap to shine a light on those individuals more obsessed with arbitrary external measures of their personal definition of success, rather than self-reflecting on said definition and asking whether or not this definition fits who they are or want to be as a person, o…

Dunno - I think it's hard for a lot of us who rolled the dice on our interests early on, picked the winning combo of CS + Finance, and then just raced ahead in the career ladder over our peers as software work consumed the world. Now it's ten years later, those ladders have disappeared, many of us seeing the writing on the wall, and wondering whether we were anything special at all. (The answer of course is no, but i…

I think the big mistake is to assume that the landscape remains static during your lifetime. This hasn't really been true for a hundred years now (and possibly a bit more than that), and that rate-of-change is only accelerating.

Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough

#218

Post by WhyOhWhyQ »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #209
WhyOhWhyQ wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would that be a waste? The average professor at any college would probably be as smart as your friend. Professors (at least in the field I did my PhD in) are smart as hell.

I have a fairly Ivy-League family, including a number of teachers and professors (I'm the redneck engineer). This guy is in a league of his own. Pretty stunning. I would be quite surprised if "any college professor" is at the same level. That said, I am also very much a "maker and doer." I spent my career amongst folks sort of like him, but focused on producing stuff. He would have knocked most of them, into a cocked…

The average college professor did their PhD at an ivy league school and everyone said exactly what you're saying about them their whole lives. A professor job is extremely competitive.

Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough

#219

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

WhyOhWhyQ wrote: post #218
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a fairly Ivy-League family, including a number of teachers and professors (I'm the redneck engineer). This guy is in a league of his own. Pretty stunning. I would be quite surprised if "any college professor" is at the same level. That said, I am also very much a "maker and doer." I spent my career amongst folks sort of like him, but focused on producing stuff. He would have knocked most of them, into a cocked…

The average college professor did their PhD at an ivy league school and everyone said exactly what you're saying about them their whole lives. A professor job is extremely competitive.

Fair’nuff.

Not worth arguing about.

Re: 210 IQ Is Not Enough

#220

Post by danans »

jacquesm wrote: post #211
danans wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you're an entrepreneur, you also have to do a bunch of things that are more social than smarts High social aptitude is "smarts". It has arguably been more central to our evolution, survival, and even advancement than "book smarts".

It would be highly surprising if it was any different, given that books have not been around long enough for us to begin to adapt to their existence in an evolutionary manner. They'll be long gone before we could have.

I also doubt that "social smart" and "book smart" are fundamentally different things. Just that different people have different sensors with different sensitivities, and different noise tolerances when operating with different types of information.
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