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Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

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211–220 of 259 posts

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "no thank you"? I am very much thank you. I'm still waiting for Apple to support the driver's license from my state. It will be one less thing to carry. There are literally no downsides. My state already had me in its electronic database because I'm a driver. The TSA already has me in its electronic database. Apple already knows exactly who I am from my many credit card purchases with them. It's not taking away a…

US tech is for many Europeans what Chinese tech is for US people. Great for inconsequential things, dangerous for critical ones.

Nah, it's really not.

It's probably good for individual European countries or even the EU as a whole to have more homegrown industry (gasp protectionism! guess you gotta agree with Trump now. Ouch), and certainly the US does use its tech companies to spy and such, but outside of Trump being an asshat the US by and large follows the rule of law, and we are indeed allies with Europe. NATO, for example. US bases helping to defend Europe, again, for example. Oh and let's not forget, every major European power spies on the US and its diplomats and activities too - that's just business as usual.

This is in stark contrast to China and the Chinese approach to the West, which includes European countries. Have you forgotten that China is helping to fund and ship weapons to Russia to fight a war against Ukraine? Last I checked the US has given aid and is selling weapons and sanctioning Russia and Russian oil. And you want to equate the US and, idk, Microsoft to buying and installing Chinese equipment, software, and services while they help support a war on European soil?

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While it may not be moral, our entire world and society are set up to treat folks with more resources as superior people with more rights and privileges. I don't know about that. Ability to buy more != superiority and rights and privileges. I know a bunch of people who disdain the ultra rich and see them as the opposite of superior if anything. And rights are the same for everyone...

While morality is a different discussion for sure, I was only referring to how society as an organism views people. The wealthy undeniably have more rights and privilege than the poor.

privilege yes, but rights... maybe in some societies, but I wouldn't generalize

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#213
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's kinda theoretic discussion by now. As the whole COVID thing is behind us, we can probably look at all the money that were spent in the world to create vaccination certificates, sign them, create the distribution network, distribute the certificates, build the verifying scanners, purchase them en-masse and pay the thousands of people who were standing at the entrance of numerous shopping malls and using these s…

I'm not sure how this relates to the main argument that "digital IDs are bad because they lead to perfect enforcement".

My argument is that “digital ids can’t be faked” is a bad argument, and if you rely on it to prove a point then it might be a weak proof.

(Digital IDs indeed can’t be faked but usually they are a part of a process that can be easily bypassed by using something that presents itself as a valid Digital ID even if it’s not.)

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#214
Yeah I'm not handling my phone to a police officer for identification. This will give them immediate probable cause to search my phone.

It is INSANE to me that people are excited about this nonsense. Apple Pay at least made sense as a back up source for something inconsequential, legally speaking.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#215

No thank you. I am glad that the first eID vote we had on this (in Switzerland) prevented private industry from issuing IDs etc. What we have now (upcoming, after another vote) is an open source[1] non centralized eID issued by the government.[2] Although there are still some problematic points (initial issuance software is not open source and who can ask for the ID is not limited enough) the solution we have now is…

Why "no thank you"? I am very much thank you. I'm still waiting for Apple to support the driver's license from my state. It will be one less thing to carry. There are literally no downsides. My state already had me in its electronic database because I'm a driver. The TSA already has me in its electronic database. Apple already knows exactly who I am from my many credit card purchases with them. It's not taking away a…

> There are literally no downsides. My state already had me in its electronic database because I'm a driver. The TSA already has me in its electronic database. Apple already knows exactly who I am from my many credit card purchases with them. It's not taking away any privacy. Having my ID on my phone gives me convenience and doesn't take anything away.

"Everyone already knows who I am why should I care?"

You're the exact reason our rights across the spectrum of the constitution have been eroded consistently since 2001. This view of privacy is so toxic I could go on a 10 page rant about it. There's so much wrong with this single paragraph.

First, while you are correct to say the government knows who you are. You are in databases all over. So why should you care?

1. Government organizations are not allowed to share information in many cases w.r.t. constitutionally protected things. Warrants are still required intra-government (though thanks to your type of thinking it's getting simpler and simpler for them).

2. It is taking away your privacy because cell phones are legally treated differently than paper ID. If you hand the phone to a law enforcement officer, of which most normal people have plenty of information that can be used to manufacture a case, they can legally search it as your ID and other pertinent information are there. Just like you can be compelled to open your phone if you use biometrics, you can be compelled to open your phone for your digital ID. I sure hope your nose is as clean as you imply because DAs could put Mother Teresa in prison if they worked hard enough!

3. The purpose of Apple Pay from a privacy perspective is to prevent credit card theft by using tokens. In reality it's used to track you and monetize you.

4. This is no more convenient than carrying around your ID and if you find it inconvenient to carry around 2" x 4" card in your pocket your life is so unbelievably decadent I can't possibly understand you.

5. From a security standpoint an "ID reader" at a club/bar/restaurant could feasibly lift sensitive information out of your phone without you knowing it. How much do you trust your security posture on your phone? Enough to show us all your last 5 years of text messages?

Rights are eroded over time. Slowly, year by year, election cycle by election cycle, as politicians capitalize on the collective panic over whatever moral crisis we are currently in.

> "Obviously this isn't mandatory nor should it be. Physical IDs aren't going anywhere. But I already keep all my credit cards in my Apple Wallet. I want to keep my driver's license there too".

We didn't start out with much mandatory stuff in 2001. All of it was seen as "convenient" (for the prevention of terrorism). But the fact privacy infringing things were allowed opened the door to further invasion. When you allow politicians/business to get a single millimeter of their toe in the crack of the door it's over. These "people" do not understand "reasonable". So while you hand over your most important shit to Apple and the government they're busy planning on how to either use it to imprison you or profit off you. This is true for every every constitutional right. If you're willing to give up freedom for security you deserve neither. Congratulations you've personally made the EFF and other right's organization's jobs another 1% harder.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you're American? It's much different when a foreign company wants to provide this service to you.

Why? If anything, a foreign company seems to present less risk. If you're concerned about the government getting your data, your own country can subpoena a company within its borders and get your info. It's a lot harder to get your private data from a company outside of a country's borders.

So you would be happy to have your digital identity be managed by Xiaomi, Yandex, or Eitaa?

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#218
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how this relates to the main argument that "digital IDs are bad because they lead to perfect enforcement".

My argument is that “digital ids can’t be faked” is a bad argument, and if you rely on it to prove a point then it might be a weak proof. (Digital IDs indeed can’t be faked but usually they are a part of a process that can be easily bypassed by using something that presents itself as a valid Digital ID even if it’s not.)

They'll be a part of a process that can be easily bypassed until they're the only thing that's accepted.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#219
post #181
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

States that have implemented mobile drivers licenses are starting to issue handheld readers to police officers, precisely so what you describe doesn't happen. The people building this know nobody wants to hand their phone over to the police.

Police sometimes confiscate licenses (rightly or wrongly). Having your license confiscated when it doubles as your wallet, MFA device for work, and primary communications device sounds like a disaster.

You make a good point.

In principle the police Wallet reader could have a function to virtually suspend the license, instead of physically confiscating your phone.

I wonder if they thought of that, and I wonder if police would use the option or confiscate the phone anyway.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At best a digital ID has an additional attack surface and is just more accessible. You normally aren't carrying your passport with you, right? So even if lower security, the chance of that information being swiped is generally lower. Phones are pretty high profile targets, this makes them more so. I do like the idea and the convenience, but I'm definitely wary of these things too. Especially in the modern tech world…

You're ignoring the benefits though - it will help adapt more services to work online and reduce bureaucracy. Look at Germany where they outright refuse to acknowledge emails as a legal notification / correspondence so everything still gets sent as letters and fax. It's extremely slow and cumbersome. Also it will help for security as the central service can authenticate you, instead of every little hotel and bank bra…

Am I ignoring the benefits or am I just responding to the comment?
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