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Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

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Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#211

Post by ang_cire »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #206
ang_cire wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how "exploit workers worse (medallions) and worse (rideshares) until we can fully cut them out" has played out in such a perfect microcosm, and yet somehow people here don't seem to register that it was never the workers' own fault. Taxis didn't lose because rideshares played the game better, they lost because rideshare companies used investor money to leapfrog their apps, ignored actual commercial transpo…

Taxi companies didn't have any apps to leapfrog in the first place. Uber and Lyft created a superior product that people wanted. Doesn't matter whose fault it is, the buyers preferred something that was more convenient. There was never a situation where uneducated cabbies on shoestring budgets were going to be able to develop an Uber/Lyft alternative.

> Taxi companies didn't have any apps to leapfrog in the first place.

This shows just how badly behind they were. All the large cab companies have had apps for years. No one knows about them.

Here's YellowCab's: https://rideyellow.com/app/

> uneducated cabbies on shoestring budgets were going to be able to develop an Uber/Lyft alternative.

Are you under the impression that most cabs are/ were independent? That wasn't the case since at latest the 1980s. Having a radio dispatcher is a huge necessity as a cab driver.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#212

Post by lotsofpulp »

ang_cire wrote: post #192
cynicalsecurity wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It must be interesting being an Uber driver right now and literally watching the robots that will replace you driving around with you. You mean just like programmers watching AI replacing them?

AI doesn't replace programmers, it's used by programmers for efficiency. Waymo is most definitely not being used by taxi or rideshare drivers to be more efficient.

As I understand, Waymo still uses humans in some circumstances. Theoretically, the drivers could do this job instead.

https://waymo.com/blog/2024/05/fleet-response/

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#213

Post by dekhn »

pa7ch wrote: post #76
ericmcer wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It must be interesting being an Uber driver right now and literally watching the robots that will replace you driving around with you. This has been a 15+ year process and will probably take a few more years. I don't feel too bad if they didn't manage to pivot in that time period.

You say the term pivot like its a startup founder who has every option in life. You should feel bad for anyone who would struggle for a basic job.

the history of humans on earth has been pivots, even amongst people who had few options.

I don't subscribe to feeling guilty every time somebody loses a job. I feel empathy, but telling people to "feel bad" is not constructive.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#214

Post by senordevnyc »

CPLX wrote: post #143
crazygringo wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absurd, and it's a**hole behavior you're defending. You don't need to break any laws to get to where you're going, what are you even talking about? And you think that just because you're in a taxi you should get to magically cut to the front of a line of cars, made of the vast majority of New Yorkers who actually respect each other? What could possibly make you feel so entitled? And if you think waiting in li…

No, I don't think it's because you're in a taxi. I think everybody should try to cut to the front of the line. That's what everybody does in New York, and it works pretty well. It's pretty easy to understand what's gonna happen next. I've lived in New York for longer than most HN posters here have been alive, most likely. A couple of times a year, I'll end up in a car with someone who doesn't understand how this whol…

I live and drive in NYC, and this is utter bullshit. To the extent that it's difficult to drive here, it's because of assholes who think they deserve to cut the line and fuck it up for everyone else.

Please stop driving here, you clearly aren't qualified to do so.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#215

Post by moandcompany »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #147
bronco21016 wrote: post #7

I don’t live in a served market yet so I haven’t yet tried Waymo. However I have used SuperCruise and BlueCruise from GM and Ford. What I’ve noticed from those other systems is that a human in the loop makes the system so much more comfortable. I’ve had times where I can see the red lights ahead and the system is not yet slowing because the car immediately in front of me isn’t slowing yet. It’s unsettling when the au…

> However I have used SuperCruise and BlueCruise from GM and Ford. We had Waymo and Cruise in SF at the same time for a while and by god Cruise was shit and felt unsafe. Waymo is year ahead of Cruise and better in every manner.

SuperCruise and BlueCruise are technology names from GM and Ford for assisted driving in their car products, and not synonomous with Cruise the company providing ride share services.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#216

Post by senordevnyc »

lumens wrote: post #109
eloncuck wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Daily. I'm still unable to leave my culdesac without phantom leaves causing phantom braking. There was a time when I believed in the hype, I'm less skeptical than most. But the evidence now is incontrovertible.

I assume this is not a HW4 vehicle? I am empathetic to the disappointment of older vehicle owners who have been promised this capability for years and still don't see it (because their hardware just can't -- and the hardware upgrade isn't coming either). That said, the new Y with 14.1.x really does do as claimed.

These threads always give me deja vu. I've been reading these exact comments for a decade. Only the version numbers change.

But yes, I'm sure any day now.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#218

Post by dekhn »

mostly_harmless wrote: post #210
Night_Thastus wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Twice as slow" is not even slightly accurate. If you're driving 45 in a 40, that may sound like 12% faster, but once you add traffic, lights, stop signs, turns, etc - you'll find that the 12% all but evaporates. Even if you're really pushing it and going 15 over, at most speeds and for most typical commutes, it saves very little. Most of the time speeding ends up saving on the order of seconds on ~30 minutes or shor…

I'll add on that speeding is the biggest contributing factor in accidents. And accident outcomes get exponentially worse above 30mph. For every 10 mph of increased speed, the risk of dying in a crash doubles.

There's a great paper which I can't find any more that said "going faster makes you take longer to get to the destination"; they showed the expected value for arrival time was longer at speed due to higher accident rates.

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#219

Post by panarky »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #114
LZ_Khan wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo is overly conservative last time I checked. Driving the speed limit basically means getting to your destination twice as slow.

"Twice as slow" is not even slightly accurate. If you're driving 45 in a 40, that may sound like 12% faster, but once you add traffic, lights, stop signs, turns, etc - you'll find that the 12% all but evaporates. Even if you're really pushing it and going 15 over, at most speeds and for most typical commutes, it saves very little. Most of the time speeding ends up saving on the order of seconds on ~30 minutes or shor…

93% of American drivers think they're better drivers than the median driver [0].

This overconfidence causes humans to take unnecessary risks that not only endanger themselves, but everyone else on the road.

After taking several dozen Waymo rides and watching them negotiate complex and ambiguous driving scenarios, including many situations where overconfident drivers are driving dangerously, I realize that Waymo is a far better driver than I am.

Waymos don't just prevent a large percentage of accidents by making fewer mistakes than a human driver, but Waymos also avoid a lot of accidents caused by other distracted and careless human drivers.

Now when I have to drive a car myself, my goal is to try to drive as much like a Waymo as I can.

[0] https://gwern.net/doc/psychology/1981-svenson.pdf

Re: Waymo robotaxis are now giving rides on freeways in LA, SF and Phoenix

#220

Post by dekhn »

NullHypothesist wrote: post #2

This is a huge sign of confidence that they think they can do this safely and at scale... Freeways might appear "easy" on the surface, but there are all sorts of long tail edge-cases that make them insanely tricky to do confidently without a driver. This will unlock a lot for them with all of the smaller US cities (where highways are essential) they've announced plans for over the next year or so.

This reminds me of the time I was driving on 101 south of SF and saw a sea lion flopping across the road (https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/seal-otter-on-freeway...). It took my brain quite some time to accept that I was seeing what I was seeing. Felt like a real edge case.
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