Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I Want You to Understand Chicago

aphyr.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 532 posts

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#211

Post by ryandrake »

wombatpm wrote: post #191
kasey_junk wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids school has started doing drills with the students in what to do when ice shows up. Like they do for tornadoes. They need to because ICE is using schools as raid locations every day.

The children might be citizens, but ICE seizes them so that the immigrant parents have to show up and claim them. Chicago schools are reporting lower attendance as a result. We just had a case where a daycare provider was hauled out despite having her papers in order-she was subsequently released. Priests being shot in the head with pepper balls, intentional accidents being caused by agents. And when they do somethin…

> I look forward to everyone in these organizations facing accountability. And not just the thugs on the street but the leaders first all the way to the top.

Unfortunately, the chances of this happening are minuscule, even if the executive branch ever changes hands in the future. The other party is too moderate, and doesn't have the backbone or courage to see it through, nor the patience and attention to detail to get them all. They'll be tied up in subpoenas, testimonies in front of Congress, hearings, hearings about hearings... Meanwhile, the people (both in leadership and boots on the ground) who are doing this today will slink back to normal life. The ringleaders will slide into comfy roles in think tanks, corporate boards, and lobbying groups. The hired thugs will go back to working as mall security and bouncers, hoping nobody remembers the time they cosplayed as Bond villain footsoldiers.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#212

Post by don_neufeld »

themafia wrote: post #189
roxolotl wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? Not wanting to visit countries where secret police are rounding people up, regardless of citizenship, seems like a reasonable opinion.

[flagged]

Chicago has over 50 millions tourists per year and rising.

https://cdn.choosechicago.com/uploads/2025/07/Chicago-Touris...

https://abc7chicago.com/post/chicago-sees-record-breaking-ho...

Is that a lot?

Well, Rome - which people the world over would consider a “tourist destination” only has 35M tourists per year.

https://hotelagio.com/rome-tourism-statistics/

Even Paris is less, around 47M

https://parisplaybook.com/paris-tourism-statistics/

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#213

Post by fujigawa »

tptacek wrote: post #210
fujigawa wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

None of this has anything whatsoever to do with whether "Pedro" will be there to shovel their driveway. Nobody cares about that. We all live with 100% certainty that somebody will exchange dollars for snow shoveling. The reason you hear about landscapers right now is that ICE is directly targeting them. If you're ICE, looking to meet a detention quota from whatever quadrant Oak Park is in, the easiest way to do that…

[flagged]

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#214

Post by stackghost »

nullstyle wrote: post #200
pessimizer wrote: post #168

[flagged]

Part of the problem with these degens is their attitude that downvotes mean they are over the target. This dude is just ignorant with, near as i can tell, asmongold on your brain and breath. His mistakes aren’t worth refuting, but I’ll give them one for free : despite the claim otherwise, it is in fact possible for Americans to go south to Mexico and live, and Mexico City is itself going through somewhat of a gentrif…

>We all saw ICE laughing while they pepper balled a priest in the head. No one voted for that.

70+ million of you voted for exactly that.

Everyone saw exactly who and what Trump was during his first term.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#215

Post by ryandrake »

tptacek wrote: post #173
tedivm wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live here, and Pritzker says the right things then does the wrong things. He sent the Illinois State Police to help protect ICE from protestors as Broadview, freeing up their resources to attack and kidnap people. In half the videos you see out there his state police as assisting ICE. We have Chicago Aldermen out in the streets and in the hospitals getting arrested and assaulted, we have candidates for congress lik…

Right now, I agree pretty strongly with this. In particular: Pritzker is the command in chief of the Illinois State Police. But the ISP is very conservative and fairly MAGA, and ISP has staffed protests pretty aggressively. Pritzker has in theory the ability to reorient ISP away from policing protesters and towards protecting them from DHS, and he has pointedly not done so. Even if he's just OK, doing a replacement-l…

It's kind of too late for quick action. You're not going to turn the attitudes of Law Enforcement on a dime. We need a decades long effort to eliminate MAGA, White Supremacy, gangs, lawlessness and thuggery from thousands of local and state police forces nationwide. These attitudes have so thoroughly infiltrated policing for so long, it's going to take deliberate restructuring of these institutions and personnel replacement to resolve.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#216

Post by tptacek »

ryandrake wrote: post #4
don_neufeld wrote: post #2

I’m so glad that Kyle wrote this. I’m so sad that he had to. Pay attention to what’s going on and vote.

The problem is how many people enthusiastically voted for this madness, lawlessness and cruelty, and are still cheering it on. You can say "vote, vote, vote," and maybe it will work in 2026 or 2028, or 2030 or whenever, but the root problem is not going away: you are still surrounded by people all over the country who want this.

I don't think this framing is very helpful. Whatever you believe about the people who pulled the lever for Trump, which included an unprecedented number of Latino and Black voters, they exist, and they're not persuaded by your disapproval. I think a really big problem we have on my side of the aisle is the belief that there's a celestial referee who will call offsides on the Republicans if we can just find the right argument at the right amplitude.

What led into our current circumstances was several years of uncontrolled, chaotic immigration, caused in large part by specific articulable decisions Biden's administration made. People felt like the situation had gotten out of control, and they weren't wrong. Every day I'd commute into my office and pass multiple corners and Ike off-ramps(!) staffed by a woman and several of her tiny children, out in the cold, trying to sell bottles of water.

My reaction to that wasn't "deport them". I'm a liberal Democrat. But we're kidding ourselves if we think a natural reaction to that situation was "this is fine".

The election was fully determined by inflation. Biden made a reasonable (though incorrect) bet that full employment was more important than price stability. It was not: people fucking hate inflation. By a large factor inflation was the most important issue in the 2024 election. But the second-most important issue was immigration (like it has been throughout Europe over the past 10 years) and then after that the issues sharply trail off in importance.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#217

Post by tptacek »

ryandrake wrote: post #215
tptacek wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, I agree pretty strongly with this. In particular: Pritzker is the command in chief of the Illinois State Police. But the ISP is very conservative and fairly MAGA, and ISP has staffed protests pretty aggressively. Pritzker has in theory the ability to reorient ISP away from policing protesters and towards protecting them from DHS, and he has pointedly not done so. Even if he's just OK, doing a replacement-l…

It's kind of too late for quick action. You're not going to turn the attitudes of Law Enforcement on a dime. We need a decades long effort to eliminate MAGA, White Supremacy, gangs, lawlessness and thuggery from thousands of local and state police forces nationwide. These attitudes have so thoroughly infiltrated policing for so long, it's going to take deliberate restructuring of these institutions and personnel repl…

That attitude sounds like a really good way to be Brandon Johnson, the least popular mayor in the United States.

Pritzker can either solve the problem or he can't. It's fine if he can't. I couldn't solve it. Few could! But if he can't, he's not qualified to be President, a job that will send him harder problems than this. It's fine for him not to be President. Most people (waves at the Oval Office right now) shouldn't.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#218

Post by tptacek »

fujigawa wrote: post #213
tptacek wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this has anything whatsoever to do with whether "Pedro" will be there to shovel their driveway. Nobody cares about that. We all live with 100% certainty that somebody will exchange dollars for snow shoveling. The reason you hear about landscapers right now is that ICE is directly targeting them. If you're ICE, looking to meet a detention quota from whatever quadrant Oak Park is in, the easiest way to do that…

[flagged]

I'm engaging only with your false claim that concerns about ICE are motivated by landscaping logistics, which is risible and pointlessly inflammatory.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#219

Post by WillEngler »

nemo44x wrote: post #184

[flagged]

This is a common objection I hear raised, so I think it's good that you raised it here. Respectfully, I think there is a lot of rhetorical slippage in your argument.

First, I did not support the very loose amnesty policy, but I also don't support ICE teargassing the grocery store parking lot outside of my old apartment in Logan Square. In any case I don't think one's opinion on the first thing should disqualify them from having a take on deportation tactics.

Second, I think there is substantial ambiguity in what people voted for on deportation. There were lots of promises of deporting dangerous criminals (something that I agree would be a good idea). A subset of Trump voters in 2024 did want to round up migrant day laborers standing outside of Home Depots, and they are getting what they voted for. But I think another large subset believed that there was going to be a targeted deportation of "the worst of the worst". The administration claims to be doing this, but the worst of the worst are very unlikely to be looking for work outside of Home Depot.

Lastly, to your question, I think there are many many ways for the tactics to be more humane (and constitutional). To take just one example, I think the feds should resume allowing Catholic clergy into the Chicago-area processing facility at Broadview to administer the sacrament of the Eucharist.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#220

Post by atmavatar »

throwaway173738 wrote: post #199
ssl-3 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We must always vote. Our voter turnout for elections in the US is approximately shit. We must also do other things, too: Voting isn't the end-all, be-all solution to everything. (And that's OK; we can do more than one thing at a time.) But the absolute necessity of actually-voting is a constant, and I'm equipped with a profound amount of intolerance towards any idea that may suggest otherwise.

Yeah, the people who suggest voting doesn’t matter are either suffering from some nihilistic delusion or they’re spreading a self-serving lie.

Or, they live in one of the 40-something states where the election margins are large enough that it doesn't matter whether they vote.

My state hasn't voted Democrat since 1964. The only two elections with less than a 10-point spread since then were in 1976 (7.5% spread) and 1992 (5% spread due to Perot stealing votes from Bush Sr.).

I moved to this state in 1993.

Post reply on HN