Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

electrek.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 317 posts

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#211

Post by breve »

acdha wrote: post #210
breve wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China has done the world collectively as a whole a major service I doubt the Uyghurs would agree: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57124636 https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/in-broad... https://sustainabilitymag.com/articles/gb-energy-blocks-use-... https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/solar-companies-linked-to-...

I agree their treatment of the Uyghurs is deplorable but the way you had to chop that quote like a creationist undermines your point. It’s possible to say China has done both good and bad things, and recognizing the cost rather than denying something factual is probably a more effective.

You're rationalizing slavery. That kind of nihilistic apathy is never useful.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#214

Post by mschuster91 »

floam wrote: post #84
maccard wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile here in UK, we’re unable to get phone signal in the middle of major population centres

Not literally no signal/service, right? More likely “I have a few bars but data doesn’t seem to work… calls often won’t initiate unless 911?” thing you get when there’s too many devices connecting to an overburdened tower, in a network that needs more cells or something, and QoS/qci says no? If it’s a population center someone would probably have put up a tower on their land ll

> Not literally no signal/service, right?

Come to Munich, go into any of the large old buildings, the central stairwells usually are phone dead zones. Truly dead.

Or try to go and hike in the Alps. Shit service, but as soon as you walk into Austrian territory, you'll suddenly have service.

Or try taking a train from Munich to, say, Landshut. You'll lose signal about 5 minutes after the train passes through the outskirts of Feldmoching.

Or try driving a car on the A8 highway to Salzburg in Austria. You'll lose signal about 5-10 minutes after passing Holzkirchen.

Or try taking a train from Passau to Wels in Austria. Passau is directly near the border. You will have a shit service right until the train passes the national border and Austrian towers take over.

The reason isn't technical. The Passau and Alps example shows it - identical geography, identical mountainous areas with about zero population... but wildly different attitudes in regulation.

> If it’s a population center someone would probably have put up a tower on their land ll

Here, you get death threats if you even propose putting up a tower on your land [1], in the UK nutjobs set a 5G tower ablaze [2].

[1] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/wolfratshausen/icking-5...

[2] https://www.blick.ch/ausland/grossbritannien-handymast-eines...

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#215

Post by rstuart4133 »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #168
andrewinardeer wrote: post #140

On the flip side here in Australia the government for years encouraged us to get panels put on our house by selling it as, "You can export power and create a small income exporting the surplus you create". So many people did so that at one point last year the government said, "So many people are exporting it now, and the surplus is so great on the network we may have to charge you for exporting it". Wholesale power p…

I haven't look into the details, but It sure feels like a slap in the face to those of us who invested in panels. I think this is about battery sales for those that can afford it. Fill a battery up for free and use the power during peak hours.

> I haven't look into the details, but It sure feels like a slap in the face to those of us who invested in panels.

Sure. But if you live in Australia, you knew that slap was coming. You could almost have said to have signed up for it.

Very early in the piece, the government offered to pay people who installed solar about $0.50 for every kWh you fed into the grid. To be clear, that was far more than the retail price of electricity at the time. It was sunsetted, in 2028 from memory (so if you signed up back then, that sweet subsidy money still flowing strong.) I know a few people who installed 50kW of panels on their houses and sheds purely because of that incentive.

The idea behind the subsidy was to kickstart the solar industry, and it worked. It was always obvious what was going to happen to feed in prices if it did work. Given the price of power is now very close to $0 for 8 hours a day, it's working very, very well. That's how this "free electricity" offer came about.

The same incentives are now happening for batteries. The Australia electricity regulator created a special kind of retailer called a "Virtual Power Plant". It's effectively a collective of battery owning consumers, and the VPP allows them to sell their excess storage into the wholesale market. The government is now subsidising batteries, in the same way they subsidised solar panels. And now, they are looking at offering free power to charge the batteries(!) The result you should be able to get will over a 10% return by installing a battery and joining a VPP. Consequently, there is currently a shortage of battery installers.

That 10% won't last forever of course. It will last for a while, especially in Queensland (where I live) as the conservatives are installing more gas turbines rather than building more renewables. The high price of gas generated power guarantees a good return on my battery investment. I will take great pleasure in sending the gas and coal generators broke by selling when the price is highest (which is a night) and taking their profit.

And fortunately night lasts a long time, and years and years of battery installs to take a real bite out of it. Nevertheless the fun and profit will wind down eventually. When it does I won't be whinging about a receiving slap in the face. I will shrug, be thankful I could have my fun while it lasted, and move on.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#216

Post by acdha »

breve wrote: post #211
acdha wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree their treatment of the Uyghurs is deplorable but the way you had to chop that quote like a creationist undermines your point. It’s possible to say China has done both good and bad things, and recognizing the cost rather than denying something factual is probably a more effective.

You're rationalizing slavery. That kind of nihilistic apathy is never useful.

Not in the slightest. I’m saying that it’s possible to recognize that evil without denying that something else is good. Just do both at the same time, like how we might say that the world has benefited from polyurethane, digital computers (Konrad Zuse), or rocketry without in any way excusing the Nazi government which controlled Germany at the time.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#217

Post by fekunde »

jjcm wrote: post #128
chankstein38 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man as someone paying a premium for power in the US, Australia is sounding really nice

I took a job with Atlassian out there and got my citizenship. Best 5 years of my life. I'm back in the US now temporarily, but there's zero doubt in my mind I will end up back in Aus. I've lived in 8 cities now(1), and Sydney was the highest quality of life I've had out of any of them. Great infrastructure, great work-life balance, great culture, and fantastic weather. Only downsides are the distance and the lack of…

Curious how you'd rank the 8 cities

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#218

Post by breve »

acdha wrote: post #216
breve wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're rationalizing slavery. That kind of nihilistic apathy is never useful.

Not in the slightest. I’m saying that it’s possible to recognize that evil without denying that something else is good. Just do both at the same time, like how we might say that the world has benefited from polyurethane, digital computers (Konrad Zuse), or rocketry without in any way excusing the Nazi government which controlled Germany at the time.

You are entirely rationalizing it.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#219

Post by vondur »

jeffbee wrote: post #95
jimt1234 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine is trying to build a house in a remote area of Southern California. He's planning to be completely "off-grid", generating power exclusively from solar. However, local regulators insist he hook up to the local electric utility. Further, in order to run the electrical cables to his property (from the substation), the local fire department insists that the brush is cleared around the new electrical cabl…

If your friend wants to build a remote off-grid house that's in the middle of nowhere, why wouldn't they shop for a jurisdiction that allows it? Places that require utility connections are actual places generally. When you live out in the center of Inyo County you can be off the grid if you want. It sounds to me like your friend wants the benefits of proximity to developed places, but also wants to opt-out of contrib…

I’m assuming that, based on the property’s remote location and the lack of existing power infrastructure, it would make sense for them to build something that’s primarily offgrid.

Re: Australia has so much solar that it's offering everyone free electricity

#220

Post by maxglute »

breve wrote: post #205
willvarfar wrote: post #3

Ignoring the politics, we have to say that China has done the world collectively as a whole a major service in strategically developing and mass producing super cheap solar panels.

> China has done the world collectively as a whole a major service I doubt the Uyghurs would agree: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-57124636 https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/in-broad... https://sustainabilitymag.com/articles/gb-energy-blocks-use-... https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/solar-companies-linked-to-...

Most of them would. These are labour-rural-transfer programs thats been going on in PRC for poverty alleviation for 20+ years that retards in west twisted into slave labour.

The entire coerced labour propaganda are bunch of country bumpkin Uyghurs getting enrolled in poverty alleviation programs where they're paid close to median wage, i.e. 2x+ typical subsistent agri income. This is equivalent to US starting a jobs program to give bottom quantile earners (15k) a median income (40k).

The reality is these are well paying jobs, relative to bottom quantile recruits these programs are designed to uplift usually go towards more ethnically "Chinese" applicants, because factory bosses don't want to deal with Uyghurs who don't Mandarin Good until central pushed Uyghurs (and Tibetans) to front of queue, when frankly much more qualified "Chinese" applicants exist.

Are individuals sometimes fucked in the process, of course, statistic inevitability, but poverty alleivation is net good for Uyghurs, XJ solar is net good for the world.

Post reply on HN