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Tim Bray on Grokipedia

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Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#211

Post by LexiMax »

yappen wrote: post #207
LexiMax wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have no idea why you believe this. Because I have thought about why people choose to hyper-focus on trans-folk, and it's one of the few explanations that makes sense, at least for men. Why would someone say that they're "protecting" women, but advocate against abortion rights, divorce, sufferage, or higher limits on the age of consent to marry? Why would someone say their religious views are incompatible, but hav…

[dead]

Indeed, I did not itemize out every possible rationalization I have seen. The exact shape of the rationalization isn't terribly interesting or germane.

It's the underlying insecurities that those forms of motivated reasoning are covering up for that is far more illustrative.

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#212

Post by jameslk »

LexiMax wrote: post #180
jameslk wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why on earth would we want a technology that’s as good at summarisation as it is at hallucinations to write encyclopaedia entries?? You can never trust it to be faithful with the sources. Isn’t summarization precisely one of the biggest values people are getting from AI models? What prevents one from mitigating hallucination problems with editors as I mentioned? Are there not other ways you can think of this might…

> Isn’t summarization precisely one of the biggest values people are getting from AI models? If I want an AI summary of a Wikipedia article, I can just ask an AI and cut out the middle-man. Not only that, once I've asked the AI to do so, I can do things like ask follow-up questions or ask it to expand on a particular detail. That's something you can't do with the copy-pasted output of an AI.

The good news is that you don’t have to use it. I see ways this idea can be improved, some of which I already mentioned in this thread. It just launched recently so judging solely by what it is today is missing the point

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#213

Post by mensetmanusman »

meowface wrote: post #71
LastTrain wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ Grok has historically actually been one of the biggest debunkers of right-wing misinformation and conspiracy theories on Twitter” Well, no, it hasn’t. It has debunked some things. It has made some incorrect shit up. But it isn’t historically one of the “biggest debunkers” of anything. Do we only speak hyperbole now?

I am not using hyperbole or speculating. I absolutely mean it. "Biggest" is tough to quantify, but "most significant" and "most effective" is what I meant. I use Twitter way too many hours a day basically every day and have a morbid fixation on diving deep into right and far-right rabbit holes there. (Like, on thousands of occasions.) Grok is without a doubt the single most important contributor to convincing believe…

This is true, I’m surprised how well grok and community votes have worked (much better than silencing and shadow banning).

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#214

Post by mensetmanusman »

pstuart wrote: post #9
meowface wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate: Grok has historically actually been one of the biggest debunkers of right-wing misinformation and conspiracy theories on Twitter, contrary to popular conception. Elon keeps trying to tweak its system prompt to make it less effective at that, but Grokipedia was worth an initial look from me out of curiosity. It took me 10 seconds to realize it was ideologically-motivated garbage and significa…

The problem of debunking right-wing misinformation is that it doesn't seem to matter. The consumers of that misinformation want it and those of us who think it's bad for society already know that its garbage. It feels like we've reached Peak Stupidity but it's clear it can (and likely will) get much worse with AI videos.

“ The problem of debunking right-wing misinformation is that it doesn't seem to matter.”

The problem with nihilism is that it’s wrong.

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#215

Post by spankibalt »

generationP wrote: post #208
spankibalt wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Note that I've said 'anti-woke content', not 'anti-woke media'." In the context of my argument a distinction without difference. > "I am including the occasional "course correction" opeds and actually well-researched longreads you're seeing in places like NYT, Atlantic and such." Well, that's the crux: There is no such thing for me as "actually well-researched anti-woke content". That's just a pathetic, and ultima…

Look for anything written by Jesse Singal or Charles Murray for the well-researched anti-woke content I'm referring to (and there is a lot of more; these are just two authors who made it their focus; some of the best stuff comes actually comes from journalists with wider purviews). I don't know what "Cult of Personality" you are referring to; unless you are hallucinating this particular reference, I've gone to school…

> "Look for anything written by Jesse Singal or Charles Murray for the well-researched anti-woke content I'm referring to [...]"

Plonk

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#216

Post by 9dev »

yappen wrote: post #190
9dev wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t hold an entire group of people responsible for the actions of a few extremists, unless you want to stop Christians and Muslims as well. And don’t get me started on all the shit men pull off worldwide, yet I don’t see you rallying against heterosexuality?

[flagged]

> At least most Christians and Muslims accept that others don't believe in their religion and, for the most part, don't force them to act as if they do.

Just like most trans people accept that others don’t understand their way of life, and, for the most part, don’t force them to act as if they do.

Yet you can’t acknowledge that and pretend all trans people are some kind of opaque mob.

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#217

Post by yappen »

9dev wrote: post #216
yappen wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> At least most Christians and Muslims accept that others don't believe in their religion and, for the most part, don't force them to act as if they do. Just like most trans people accept that others don’t understand their way of life, and, for the most part, don’t force them to act as if they do. Yet you can’t acknowledge that and pretend all trans people are some kind of opaque mob.

[flagged]

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#218

Post by tstrimple »

sunaookami wrote: post #182
tstrimple wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s amazing the see the credulity of Elon stans. It’s the exact same reason grifting is so profitable among the right wing. It literally doesn’t matter how much evidence there is. If dear leader gives an excuse, they all believe and repeat the excuses. They are conditioned to it at this point. Any sources that refute their position is just leftist bias. This world fucking sucks.

I don't know what opinion you have of me but it's completely wrong. Maybe you should get off the internet a bit.

Naw. You’re exactly the sort of credulous fool that people like Musk depend on. You have an infinite amount of excuses and justifications for outright awful behavior. “He’s working on it! He promised!” As if we should take those statements at face value given all the other mountains of evidence that we are dealing with people without morals or any real values other than enriching themselves. But sure. Keep believing that FSD is right around the corner and Tesla will own the robotaxi ecosystem entirely despite all actual evidence. Keep making excuses for fascists as they do their best to ruin this country.

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#219

Post by iaiaiaiaiiiiaii »

tstrimple wrote: post #218
sunaookami wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what opinion you have of me but it's completely wrong. Maybe you should get off the internet a bit.

Naw. You’re exactly the sort of credulous fool that people like Musk depend on. You have an infinite amount of excuses and justifications for outright awful behavior. “He’s working on it! He promised!” As if we should take those statements at face value given all the other mountains of evidence that we are dealing with people without morals or any real values other than enriching themselves. But sure. Keep believing…

Don't be a cunt, mate.

Re: Tim Bray on Grokipedia

#220

Post by habinero »

virissimo wrote: post #77
J_McQuade wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name one.

Some left-coded popular conspiracies: 1. The Iraq war was a plot to steal oil reserves 2. World Economic Forum / IMF intentionally impoverish nations 3. Police across America are systematically hunting and executing Black men (thousands per year), but are protected by racist institutions 4. Trump assassination attempts were false flag operations 5. Big Pharma deliberately hides natural cures for cancer to protect cor…

I've heard right wing people claim 2 and 5, and I wouldn't call 1 or 4 "popular" by any stretch of the imagination.

3 is just a weirdly-phrased version of a real problem.

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