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ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

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Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#211

Post by _DeadFred_ »

sowbug wrote: post #165
evanjrowley wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal action against this is going to be a tough, possibly unfeasable battle. Whatever the laws are, they probably contain exceptions for the use of biometrics for law enforcement purposes. In terms of court precedent, biometrics are not protected by the 4th amendment, because your face is not considered a secret that the government could compel you to reveal.

Question for a future (2026?) dystopia: if our faces aren't secret or private for 4A/5A purposes, can we start making them secret/private by walking around in public with a balaclava? New norms go both ways.

We now know why people had such weird makeup/facial modification attachments in dystopian sci-fi.

Luckily we have libertarians, 1990s Republicans, and Hannity and Infowars fans that will fight vehemently to stop this sort of face scanning. It is all of theirs' nightmare scenarios way past all their red lines up there with Walmarts turned into relocation camps.

But until they sort it out is it possible to make temporary tattoos (or just stickers) with patterns that make facial scanning unfeasible?

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#212

Post by JuniperMesos »

JohnMakin wrote: post #41
supportengineer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You're being pulled over because this licence plate is not registered with a valid REAL ID"

If only it was this bad. REAL ID only proves you were at one point allowed to be here. It doesn't prove you're allowed to be here right now (which can change arbitrarily and at any time apparently)

The state should avoid giving a REAL ID to anyine who isn't at least a permanent resident of the US (and the distinction between cirizen and non-citizen IDs should be very obvious). A lot of illegal immigrants are people who legally entered the US on a temporary visa, and overstayed; and it would be good if basically every American bureaucracy was quickly, consistently, and legibly checking for that status.

Instead, the situation we have now is that many bureaucracies deliberately avoid making any citizenship or legal residency distinction on official documents because the polticians who determine the rules for those bureaucracies think immigration enforcement is immoral and want to make it easier for illegal immigrants to access American bureaucracies and harder for other bureaucracies controlled by less immigration-friendly polticians to detect illegal immigrants.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#213

Post by JohnMakin »

alwa wrote: post #118
puppycodes wrote: post #85

Seems like this would be to collect faces of what they consider "dissedents" rather than verify citizenship which can be done much more accurately through a mobile fingerprint reader. Then again, who needs accuracy when you dissapear people without a warrant.

When are citizens’ fingerprints normally put on file, in the US? Or, for that matter, noncitizens who entered irregularly?

When you get a driver's license, for one.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#214

Post by quickthrowman »

tootie wrote: post #116
_yb2s wrote: post #55

Don’t fall for the lie that this is at all about illegal immigration- that is just an excuse for what has become state sponsored KKK style racial terrorism operating completely outside the law. Videos all over the Internet show them violently attacking and terrorizing hispanic looking people with no concern for if they are citizens or not. At the Wilder raid in Idaho they were shooting children with rubber bullets, a…

It is absolutely insane that the party who tried on the Libertarian mask less than 20 years ago and rode high on a wave of "don't tread on me" individual liberty is now suddenly ok with masked thugs scanning everyone's faces for their master database of enemies of the state.

The GOP uses fear and hate to spread their message and scare people into voting for them. The flavor they use changes, but the fear and hate are always there.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#215

Post by oklahomasports »

sanex wrote: post #139
oklahomasports wrote: post #102

Do people think they are clever and can have defacto open borders? Maybe stop the goon squads and enforce at the employer level though it would probably work too well…

Most of these people have SSNs and work permits. We let them in and let them work legally and now have suddenly changed our collective mind and are violently letting them know. It's absurd.

Actually there are at least ten million with no legal standing in the country at all. Did you actually just claim everyone in the country is here legally?

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#217

Post by quickthrowman »

vinyl7 wrote: post #144
keeda wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the only thing keeping this from happening is that the data is far more valuable for traffic monitoring than law enforcement. As a trivial example, these cameras can already determine is a vehicle is speeding based on its number plate sightings between any two cameras. They can hence start issuing tickets, no radar or police needed. However, they've not gone down this path because they are (r…

Don't we have the right to "face your accuser" ie getting automatic tickets from the government is illegal because you don't have an accuser.

You do in some states, like Minnesota. Red light and speed cameras are illegal here.

You do not in other states, like Virginia, which has signs informing you that they have planes that issue tickets (???)

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#218

Post by dmitrygr »

advisedwang wrote: post #207
dmitrygr wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair. If anything is stored, it likely would be illegal in some states.

Something must already be stored, for them to be comparing the photo against.

Hypothetically: driver license/passport databases are theirs already

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#219

Post by JohnMakin »

JuniperMesos wrote: post #212
JohnMakin wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only it was this bad. REAL ID only proves you were at one point allowed to be here. It doesn't prove you're allowed to be here right now (which can change arbitrarily and at any time apparently)

The state should avoid giving a REAL ID to anyine who isn't at least a permanent resident of the US (and the distinction between cirizen and non-citizen IDs should be very obvious). A lot of illegal immigrants are people who legally entered the US on a temporary visa, and overstayed; and it would be good if basically every American bureaucracy was quickly, consistently, and legibly checking for that status. Instead,…

I'm not sure what documents you think entail getting a REAL ID but they are typically proof of permanent residence, such as US passport, birth certificate, or green card. Its requirements are actually stricter than what entails getting a passport, because you also have to prove you actually live in the state you're applying in.

As for the rest of your post, I don't really know what you're babbling about has to do with what I wrote.

Re: ICE and CBP agents are scanning faces on the street to verify citizenship

#220

Post by JuniperMesos »

pessimizer wrote: post #130

[flagged]

Huge numbers of Venezuelans would want to leave Venezuela and immigrate to the US if they legally could, regardless of anything Trump does or doesn't do, because the US is a much richer and better-run country than Venezuela is. Working illegally for poor wages in the US is a better deal for many people than physically being in Venezuela. There's also nothing special about Venezuela in this respect, much of the world is so much poorer and badly run than the US that many people from many different places would prefer to live in the US compared to their own countries.
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