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MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

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Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#211

Post by Eisenstein »

rapnie wrote: post #209
Eisenstein wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are digging in a little too hard here. If someone offers a capability that you don't have, and you build that into something you use, then saying that they should be ready for it to go away at any time and be happy to have had it, seems a little too much. If there had never been an offer, they would not have built around it, and would have found another solution and, even if harder or more inconvenient, l…

Metaphor I often see in FOSS. You are this hobby painter sitting every morning on Monmartre square in Paris, painting. It attracts people's eyes. They love your work and you become a sensation, going viral. Instagram influencers from around the world just need you in their picture, they say. You just shrug and paint. One day you got bored of Monmartre. Of pleasing the crowds. You want rest, a spot in nature to paint…

Mine was much better.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#212

Post by whalesalad »

canto wrote: post #199

It's absolutely stunning that people actually defend this behaviour! The community is having an outrage - and rightfully so - about a silently discontinued artifact delivery at a very critical time. Which is their opinion and every human being is entitled to have their own opinion and state it openly. It is also perfectly fine to expect a standardised behaviour to continue. However, what is most important is that is…

I don't think the people in this thread have any concept of how much $$$ it costs to distribute a free container that is going to be downloaded billions of times.

You are a farmer, not a big fancy profitable one. Your tractor is from 1970 and works great, when it works. Your wife has health problems and can't really help out around the farm much - kids have gone off - so you just do things mostly by yourself. With your lucky dog Skip by your side. Even though times are tough and money ain't coming in like it used to - you still give free produce to the local schools and shelters. You've been doing it for over 20 years, and the community loves you for it.

But then your wife passes. Medical bills are too high. You can't give away free produce to the local schools anymore.

The community is outraged. They come to your farm with pitchforks. They set your barn and fields on fire.

This is kinda what this thread feels like lol.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#213

Post by protonbob »

serf wrote: post #185
nilamo wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a strange mindset, IMO. I'd be pissed if I had to pay $0.10 every time I turned a rachet, and it's weird to expect companies to have usage-based monetization on the tools they've made for others.

did you buy the ratchet? that's why you'd be pissed.

If you were given the ratchet and then someone wanted to charge you every time you use it you would also be pissed.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#214

Post by imiric »

Ekaros wrote: post #132
imiric wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without any contract or promise, there is no obligation to anybody. When a restaurant which you've been going to for years one day decides to serve you your favorite meal with a bit of poop on the side, do you not have the right to be upset about it? They're not under any obligation to serve you meals you're happy with. There was no contract or promise. The fact you're paying for their service doesn't buy you these…

Why isn't there similar expectations for users of Open source? That is be ready to take over yourself if maintainers do not want to do something anymore? Do not ask or demand anything. Do not expect anything but the code. To understand that you can not expect or be entitled to anything. And celebrate what you get just now. With this the solution becomes obvious. You select piece of technology to build on you are full…

> Why isn't there similar expectations for users of Open source? That is be ready to take over yourself if maintainers do not want to do something anymore?

Of course there is. Which is why many hostile projects get forked.

"That is the beauty of OSS", I hear you say. And I agree, but most people aren't developers. Even those who are, might not be familiar with the technology to continue maintaining the project. And even those who are, will still need time and effort to understand the codebase at a level that they're comfortable with maintaining it. And even those who are interested in all of that, might not do a good job at it.

So, ultimately, it is a very small subset of users who would not only have the capability to continue maintenance, but would manage to do as well as the original maintainers for the benefit of the entire community.

Most people saw an interesting piece of software, gave it a try and enjoyed it, and, if the project is successful, would probably like to continue using it. When the original developer ignores or is actively hostile towards these users, you're saying that they have no right to be upset about it? That's what I find ridiculous.

Yes, some people can be demanding and annoying, but that's true regardless if they're a paying customer, a contributor, or a "freeloader". The way you deal with this is by communicating and setting clear boundaries, not by alienating your user base.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#215

Post by geodel »

imiric wrote: post #210
jamespo wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Github is awash with accounts with zero contributions to anything who use it to lobby for their personal requirements.

This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of OSS. You're essentially saying that only users who contribute to OSS are worthy of attention and support. This is no different than saying that only commercial users, or those from specific countries, backgrounds, or industries are worthy of the same. Those users who create issues, request features, and, yes, ask for support, are as valuable as those who contribute code or…

> But you make those boundaries clear, not treat all non-paying users as entitled children.

True in theory but no one has infinite time to distinguish correctly between good feature requester or bad one.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#216

Post by skeeter2020 »

Hendrikto wrote: post #61
weli wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you always published and built Docker images for the public you are creating an expectation, people will rely on that and will chose your software based on that expectation. You suddenly deciding that you won't be offering updated Docker images especially after a CVE and with no prior notice (except a hidden commit 4 days ago that updated the README) is approaching malicious-level actions. If they truly cared ab…

> When you always published and built Docker images for the public you are creating an expectation That expectation does not entitle anybody to anything though. > people will rely on that and will chose your software based on that expectation That is their decision. Without any contract or promise, there is no obligation to anybody. > You suddenly deciding that you won't be offering updated Docker images […] is appro…

I think if you analyzed your day to day life you'd be surprised with how many reliances you have on norms and social contracts. I personally don't want to live in a world that depends on an explicit legal basis for every single thing, and I doubt you want to either.

The GP didn't say it entitled them to anything, but that it created a sense of entitlement. You are correct there's no contractual obligation to do so, but it was likely a part of the decision to go with their solution, i.e. "they make it easy to deploy!". It is a very logical conclusion to say "they just made it HARDER THAN BEFORE to deploy".

Promises are not always explicit written permission; that's why I got in trouble for re-broadcasting major-league baseball with only implicit verbal permission (thanks, Simpsons!)

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#217

Post by MrDarcy »

Joker_vD wrote: post #162
mattbee wrote: post #89

They abandoned documentation (edit: for the open source codebase) a couple of weeks ago - that seems more significant. From their Slack on Oct 10: "The documentation sites at docs.min.io/community have been pulled of this morning and will redirect to the equivalent AIStor documentation where possible ". [emphasis mine] The minio/docs repository hasn't been updated in 2 weeks now, and the implication is that isn't goi…

Nah, it's fine . It's Open Source, you can document it yourself if you need to! But there is no obligation from the MinIO authors to provide it, you're not entitled to it.

It sounds like you’re being sarcastic but what you say is correct and true.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#218

Post by toast0 »

jamespo wrote: post #172
mattbee wrote: post #89

They abandoned documentation (edit: for the open source codebase) a couple of weeks ago - that seems more significant. From their Slack on Oct 10: "The documentation sites at docs.min.io/community have been pulled of this morning and will redirect to the equivalent AIStor documentation where possible ". [emphasis mine] The minio/docs repository hasn't been updated in 2 weeks now, and the implication is that isn't goi…

With 100PB clusters being built and not a cent going to them, you can see why minio has gone this route. I wonder if they will be "valkeyed"? Not by AWS presumably.

That's the open source model. It's entirely predictable that if you provide software at no cost that is capable of running 100PB clusters, that some people will and you won't get paid, because those are the terms that you set.

It's fine to change your mind, but doing it in this way doesn't build goodwill. It would be better if they made an announcement that they would stop creating/distributing images on some future date; I'm sure that would also be poorly received, but it would show organizational capacity for continuity.

If I'm considering paying them for support, especially at the prices quoted elsewhere in the thread, I need to know they won't drop support for my wacky system on a whim. (If my system wasn't wacky, I probably wouldn't need paid support)

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#219

Post by dpedu »

a10c wrote: post #88
znpy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Afaik Ceph has its own object-storage functionality as well, which seems to be S3-compatible: https://docs.ceph.com/en/latest/radosgw/#object-gateway

I believe you're forced to have your data backed by a Ceph OSD. Whereas Minio can point to an NFS share on a NAS.

Minio used to be able to do this, but they dropped this feature - "gateway mode" - several years ago.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#220

Post by lysace »

timeon wrote: post #187
MuteXR wrote: post #7

Keep in mind this is the same project that removed all useful functionality from the included web UI in the community edition with the excuse that it was too much effort to maintain. This is another case of VC-funded companies pulling up the ladder behind themselves.

I understand the frustration; however using anything VC-funded, you are not paying for, is pretty risky.

It would be useful to have some kind of future feasibility risk analysis service for open third party dependencies.

Something that can be plugged into CI.

Perhaps something like this already exists?

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