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Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

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Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#211

Post by defrost »

emmelaich wrote: post #199
maxglute wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strategic REEs, i.e. heavyREE (Dysprosium, Terbium) are infact exceptionally rare, as in GEOLOGICALLY RARE. They are produced in China, because China (and Myanmar deposits controlled by China) are where ionic clays containing strategic HREEs can be economically extracted at scale. It's not just building altenrate HREE (empahsis on H) is not worth it, the technology simply doesn't exist to do so in other geologic depo…

I really wonder how much rare earth element deposits are not found for want of looking. Not much reason to source them yourselves if the country (China) uses them for products that you're going to buy. According to this map, China has vastly more. But is there something special about China/Myanmar geologically? I guess being downstream of the Himalayas is something. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/…

The clays are all over the world, the processing to extract the REE's of interest is still intensive regardless.

"According to this map" is essentially meaningless w/out a map specific definition of "reserve".

The terms "reserve", "resource" and their variations are misused outside of technical literature that cites whether they are defined via a JORC or other classification.

The bias toward China in that map likely comes from two notes:

* "proven" reserves - as in tested and estimated to some higher standard, as opposed to "we know there's a lot 'over here' but we haven't spent $X million on a drill assay program yet.

* "controlled or owned" by China - Chinese companies are majority shareholders in joint ventures that source raw materials across the globe (they source concentrates from Australia, from Peru, from elsewhere, in addition to their home soil deposits). This means a number of maps might show all REE deposits owned by Chinese companies as on the books for China (as that is where much of the processing of concentrates occurs).

For interest:

North Stanmore in Western Australia has emerged as one of the world's most extraordinary heavy rare earth element (HREE) deposits, particularly for dysprosium and terbium in North Stanmore. (Sept, 2025)

https://discoveryalert.com.au/news/north-stanmore-heavy-rare...

https://www.australianmining.com.au/victory-unearths-world-c...

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#212

Post by nine_k »

higginsniggins wrote: post #205
next_xibalba wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese heavily subsidize their companies and have large government bureaus that strategically guide industries over long time frames. For example, the CCP has been on a long, intentional path to destroying all international solar manufacturers via subsidies, dumping, etc. This is not how free markets function.

A free market just means that people are allowed to buy and sell what they want. If a government decides to help some industries that is irrelevant. It stops being free when government attacks economic activity, not when it promotes it.

"Dumping" (selling at an artificially low price) is widely considered an attack on economic activity of the competitors, even though it may spur the economic activity of the consumers of the products being dumped.

In this regard, the Chinese government pouring large subsidies into solar panel production both spurred the economic activity around installing solar panels, and attacked / thwarted in around production of the panels themselves, if the production happens outside China. Only the US was able to somehow develop solar panel production.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#214

Post by itopaloglu83 »

mc32 wrote: post #165
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

Of course the preferred option is what the Chinese do which is to never let that happen in the first place or if you do allow foreign investment always keep a 50.1% stake in the entity and exfiltrate any tech from the venture you need .

I’m not very familiar with Dutch company structure but after a certain percentage you’re usually privy to trade secrets etc. so it’s dangerous even then.

And my point has nothing to do with Chinese or Dutch or European, even though those are the examples I used.

The main thing is that it was a mistake to sell vital industries, and some people are really hypocritical when other countries do something like this, but in this particular case they’re finding out reasons to side with the Dutch government. I just want consistency, it is seldomly okay to allow any other entity into critical industries.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#215

Post by itopaloglu83 »

like_any_other wrote: post #164
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

> But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the whole hell would brake loose. As far as I understand, Samsung, TSMC, and SMIC are all closely guarded by their respective governments. And China doesn't (didn't?) allow foreign companies to operate in China without a local partner at all. So I don't see the irony - every…

I said it that way because I don’t like the hypocrisies in general, and I said European because the comment I responded to combined Dutch and European markets into one.

It would be foolish to sell off a great value like ASML or others that adds incredible value. But one should also not get mad when other countries do it, because they see their industries as valuable things as well.

Our markets are just getting more closed and different groups are being formed. Let’s hope other high value companies gather their IP rights as well.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#216

Post by itopaloglu83 »

gerash wrote: post #202
bdangubic wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA is nationalizng Intel and under this administration more of the commie shit is coming :)

The argument I have heard about the US taking 20% stake in Intel is that when a company asks for federal money then it’s only fair if the federal government gets some equity in return. You can’t socialize losses and privatize gains.

> You can’t socialize losses and privatize gains.

Yes, yes, and yes.

We kept doing this, a bank or company stretches too much after making record profits, and then cries for federal funding and free money.

The federal reserve is a lender of last resort and they shouldn’t have given that much money without any collateral etc. Even if they just kept the stock and then sold it afterwards, we wouldn’t be in this much debt. We spend trillions covering private losses, this was plain stupid.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#217

Post by itopaloglu83 »

dgfitz wrote: post #181
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how this would affect patent applications, since after such an event, some countries might not respect patents for their internal markets.

Like… China?

The coke recipe has never been patented, afaik, and similarly certain high-end things were patented only because the main company was hiring a subcontractor to do something. For example, Samsung flat out copied iPhone exactly almost.

So, my thinking is that there could be less patents, because they’re less likely to share the technology and patents might let others copy stuff.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#218

Post by fsckboy »

shtzvhdx wrote: post #188
like_any_other wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about them? The claim, or rather implication, was that Western powers would never allow equivalent protectionist policies, such as preventing the export of key industries and skills, to be enacted by other countries. Yet such protectionism is routine in China (and many other Asian countries), and "whole hell" did not break loose. A few more than half century old examples don't change what we can all see is the c…

The British, French and Israelis literally went to war against Egypt over the Suez. They only backed up when the US told the Brits and France they would tank their economies still on US life support. And, pray, why did the Machado win the hypocrisy prize on Friday? Why are American ships outside the waters of Venezuela?

>The British, French, and Israelis literally went to war against Egypt over the Suez.

The British and the French were concerned about the Suez, but Israel was not dependent on the Suez and went to war over their navigation being blockaded by Egypt in the Gulf of Aqaba and the Straits of Tiran, which was a violation by Egypt of maritime law. Aqaba is in the Sinai peninsula which is also bounded by the Suez.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_passage_through_the_Su...

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#219

Post by markus_zhang »

mmaunder wrote: post #78
dcrazy wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn’t place this quote, so I googled it and learned it’s from Godfather Part 3. Bold choice to take your favorite quote from that particular movie. :)

Oh lord no. Pacino’s Scream made acting history and is of the finest scenes to come out of the Strasberg acting ecosystem. Critics gonna crit, but there are some remarkably good things about that film.

Godfather 3 is actually my favorite Godfather movie.

It detours from the mafia line of story and instead dives into the darker maelstrom of high politics.

It is from this movie that I learned about Michele Sindona, about Propaganda Due, and in large gained an undying interest in Cold War and geopolitics. Of course I'm just an amateur who only knows English, Mandarin and a bit of French (for Cold War study I'd say all major EU languages are important), and too much source material was buried in history, awaiting for all relevant parties to die so that it has a chance to go into daylight again.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#220

Post by mgh95 »

tmnvix wrote: post #203
kapone wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, we’ll pay more and still get them. You think China is the only one that can game the system? Who’s got the money?

The usual solutions - money and violence - are not applicable here. China doesn't need the money and can't be bullied. Sources other than China are not going to cut it in the short and mid term. This is a geopolitical nightmare for the US and deserves more media attention.

There is a new facility coming online from MP Materials (see https://fortworthreport.org/mp-materials-awarded-58-5-millio...) later this year that serves dual purpose customers (GM and the US gov)
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