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Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

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Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#211
post #209
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they show on video does not protect props. Dumbest invention ever. Never mind that the idea of cutting cable is even worse.

Multiple cable cutters are installed on every military helicopter

Interesting. Did not think of military, those might have "special needs"

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#212

To be clear, they crashed into the vertical cable hanging down from the end of the crane. Not into the structure of the crane itself. So it's not as bad as "they don't see cranes". But it absolutely raises the question of whether they can see cables , whether hanging from cranes or spanning telephone poles. And honestly, cables are really hard to see in the air. That's literally why high-voltage power lines hang thos…

The company that I work for builds power line detectors for helicopters. They sense the electromagnetic fields generated by the lines and alert the pilot when the field strength exceeds a threshold. I would imagine this tech could be easily adapted for a drone.

Obviously that wouldn't work for a crane though...

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#213

China is way ahead here. There's now a Ministry of the Low Altitude Economy.[1] There's a Low Altitude Flight Service System, which is air traffic control for drones and flying cars. There are licenses for drone operators, categories of license, (advanced licenses require a flight exam), etc. China hasn't had much general aviation. There are very few private aircraft. So there was nothing like the US's FAA Flight Ser…

China is way ahead on what exactly? Regulation?

Fast food delivery in Shenzhen:

Shipping end: [1]

Receiving end: [2]

Delivery is to a box like an Amazon delivery box. Here's the current list of delivery locations and how to use the app to order.[3] Weight limit 2.3kg. Delivery time 15 minutes.

It's still rather limited. You can't have a delivery platform on your balcony yet. Mostly they deliver to parks and big open plazas.

The Shenzhen city administration seems to be very drone-friendly. There are delivery drones. Advertising drones. Light show drones. Police drones.

[1] https://wp.technologyreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/R...

[2] https://wp.technologyreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/m...

[3] https://shenzhentimes.com/how-to-order-takeout-by-drone-in-s...

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#214
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Friend of mine was a news helicopter pilot and he had one of these systems that will cut a cable if you hit one by accident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6CsNqhAeeQ . Better than getting tangled, I guess.

What they show on video does not protect props. Dumbest invention ever. Never mind that the idea of cutting cable is even worse.

It does protect, and is already certified and installed on many copters. Still, it's an emergency device, last resort, like parachutes on some small airplanes.

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#215
nice pictures. that fire proofing around all of the wires is neat, as is that bldc design with the integrated heat-sinks and the huge compute unit with the copper piping to external heat-sinks.

very nice equipment before it was smashed to smithereens.

it's rare to get a glimpse into this stuff internally. Similarly I wish Doordash would show what the Dot looks like under the bonnet so I don't need to wait for the inevitable collision pictures.

The technical side of this emerging consumer-facing robotics thing just fascinates the hell out of me.

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#216
post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. Friend of mine was a news helicopter pilot and he had one of these systems that will cut a cable if you hit one by accident: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6CsNqhAeeQ . Better than getting tangled, I guess.

What they show on video does not protect props. Dumbest invention ever. Never mind that the idea of cutting cable is even worse.

The guy who invented it tested it at various speeds and angles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_strike_protection_system. There are also numerous documented cases of these working as intended in the NTSB database. The FAA did a study and found that wire strike cutters significantly reduced fatalities https://skybrary.aero/sites/default/files/bookshelf/3288.pdf

So no, not a dumb idea according to the FAA's data backed study, the US military, and the people that operate helicopters.

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#217

To be clear, they crashed into the vertical cable hanging down from the end of the crane. Not into the structure of the crane itself. So it's not as bad as "they don't see cranes". But it absolutely raises the question of whether they can see cables , whether hanging from cranes or spanning telephone poles. And honestly, cables are really hard to see in the air. That's literally why high-voltage power lines hang thos…

Flying machines are never to be flown near cables. It's not like human pilots on a helicopter can detect and avoid the cables in the first place. Long-distance transmission wires are sometimes inspected with helicopters, so I guess there are exceptions and protocols, but outside those, flying machines just aren't supposed to fly near cables except for explicit intent to catch them. Especially across or under. You may…

> ”Long-distance transmission wires are sometimes inspected with helicopters”

In recent years they’ve been moving to drones for this job. Besides improving safety, drones allow increased inspection frequency and reduce costs.

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious what you'd define "nearby" and "well clear" as in concrete numbers. For the sake of clarity: I am not arguing against your point, nor am I defending Amazon or the tech in any way shape or form.

In non-drone aviation, we require vehicles to be separated from each other by 5 nautical miles horizontally and 2,000 feet vertically. Additionally every area of the planet they fly over has an MSA figure - Minimum Safe Altitude - which is supposed to guarantee 1000 feet clearance over any obstacles or terrain. Both of these allow healthy margins of error, whether that error is from a human pilot or ATC, or from comp…

Why do people always get a hard on for bizarre drone rules? Some amateur pilot goes up in a fireball every other week, I think we put up their safety record to that of drones and there are going to be some hard choices to make - I think it's over for our amateur pilots out there.

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#219
post #146

To be clear, they crashed into the vertical cable hanging down from the end of the crane. Not into the structure of the crane itself. So it's not as bad as "they don't see cranes". But it absolutely raises the question of whether they can see cables , whether hanging from cranes or spanning telephone poles. And honestly, cables are really hard to see in the air. That's literally why high-voltage power lines hang thos…

I suppose recognizing that there is a cable even when we don't clearly see it, but we know it is there because we know the concept of a crane, is exactly the amodal completion of our brain's top-down perceptual inference that CNNs and whatever else those drones use are currently still lacking? It shouldn't be necessary to hardcore such things if the goal is to build something resembling intelligence. Of course for a…

The easy answer is to follow the same rule that you have for every other certificated aircraft and operator: Never fly under a structure. When humans do stupid shit like this, we take away their license.

I don't think they will take away their license, but AMZN should have to explain exactly how their drones managed to crash by flying themselves under an obstruction twice in a row.

Re: Two Amazon delivery drones crash into crane in commercial area of Tolleson, AZ

#220
Move fast and break things doesn't work when safety is involved. Did a properly trained and licensed Professional Engineer review the design of Amazon's drones, their safety features and protocols before they got approval to fly outside of private testing facilities? If not, who would insure that hot mess?
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