Earlier quoted context omitted.
You made a forest hut and you are calling out people who build skyscrapers - gatekeepers.
No. I'm just saying: "yes, AI can code."
AI coding
211–220 of 299 posts
Re: AI coding
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
People repeating articles or papers. I know myself. I know from my own experiences what the good and bad of practice A or database B is. I don't need to read a conclusion by some Muppet. Chill. Interesting times. Learn stuff, like always. Iterate. Be mindful and intentional and don't just chase mirrors but be practical. The rest is fluff. You know yourself.
The takeaway from the paper is you don’t know yourself. It’s one paper, and a small sample size, but attempting to refute its conclusion by stating it’s false doesn’t really get us anywhere.
Re: AI coding
#213> It’s why the world wasted $10B+ on self driving car companies that obviously made no sense. There’s a much bigger market for truths that pump bags vs truths that don’t. Did geohot not found one of these?
He's confidently wrong a lot. (Even if I happen to agree with his new, more sober take on AI coding here.)
Re: AI coding
#214Re: AI coding
#215So I have all kinds of problems with this post. First, the assertion that the best model of "AI coding" is that it is a compiler. Compilers deterministically map a formal language to another under a spec. LLM coding tools are search-based program synthesizers that retrieve, generate, and iteratively edit code under constraints (tests/types/linters/CI). That’s why they can fix issues end-to-end on real repos (e.g., SW…
It's not surprising that you're finding problems with the article. It's written by George Hotz aka Geohot.
Re: AI coding
#216I also had a compiler related description come to me after using Copilot. It allows you to partially generate imperative code declaratively, by writing a comment like //now I will get rows X, Y, Z from ContentsProvider then tab tab complete. You can then even tweak the generated code, very useful!
Re: AI coding
#217Great short read. But this “ It’s why the world wasted $10B+ on self driving car companies that obviously made no sense.” Not everything should make sense. Playing , trying and failing is crucial to make our world nicer. Not overthinking is key, see later what works and why.
"that obviously made no sense" is bizarre. Waymo's driving people around with an injuries-per-mile rate that's lower than having humans do it. I don't see how that reconciles with "obviously made no sense".
I think he's having a bad day. He's smarter than this.
Re: AI coding
#218I'm a 100% vibe-coder. AI/CS is not my field. I've made plenty of neat apps that are useful to me. Don't ask me how they work; they just do. Sure the engineering may be abysmal, but it's good enough to work. It only takes basic english to produce these results, plus complaining to the AI agent that "The GUI is ugly and overcrowded. Make it look better, and dark mode." Want specs? "include a specs.md" This isn't a 20%…
I've worked on several projects from a few different engineering disciplines. Let me tell you from that experience alone, this is a statement that most of us dread to hear. We had nothing but pain whenever someone said something similar. We live by the code that nothing good is an accident, but is always the result of deliberate care and effort. Be it quality, reliability, user experience, fault tolerance, etc. How can you be deliberate and ensure any of those if you don't understand even the abstractions that you're building? (My first job was this principle applied to the extreme. The mission demanded it. Just documenting and recording designs, tests, versioning, failures, corrections and even meetings and decisions was a career in itself.) Am I wrong about this when it comes to AI? I could be. I concede that I can't keep up with the new trends to assess all of them. It would be foolish to say that I'm always right. But my experience with AI tools hasn't been great so far. It's far easier to delegate the work to a sufficiently mentored junior staff. Perhaps I'm doing something wrong. I don't know. But that statement I said earlier - it's a fundamental guiding principle in our professional lives. I find it hard to just drop it like that.
> But the article is highly opinionated. It's like saying only phD's can be called scientists, or only programmers can be computer hackers.
Almost every single quality professional in my generation - especially the legends - started those pursuits in their childhood under self-motivation (not as part of school curriculum even). You learn these things by pushing your boundary a little bit every day. You are a novice one day. You are the master on another. Are you absolutely pathetic at dancing? Try ten minutes a day. See what happens in ten years. Meanwhile, kids don't even care about others' opinion while learning. Nobody is gatekeeping you on account of your qualifications.
What they're challenging are the assumptions that vibe/AI coders seem to hold, but don't agree with their intuition. They are old fashioned developers. But their intuitions are honed over decades and they tend be surprisingly accurate for reputed developers like Geohotz. (There are numerous hyped up engineering projects out there that made me regret ignoring my own intuition!) It's even more valid if they can articulate their intuition into reasons. This is a very formal activity, even if they express them as blog posts. Geohotz clearly articulates why he thinks that AI copilots are nothing more than glorified compilers with a very leaky specification language. It means that you need to be very careful with your prompts, on top of tracking the interfaces, abstractions and interactions that the AI currently doesn't do at all for you. Perhaps it works for you at the scale you're trying. But lessons like the Therac-25 horror story [1] always remind us how bad things can go wrong. I just don't want to put that extra effort and waste my time reviewing AI generated code. I want to review code from a person whom I can ask for clarifications and provide critiques and feedback that they can follow later.