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How can England possibly be running out of water?

theguardian.com

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Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?

#211

Post by psd1 »

walthamstow wrote: post #111

> [England] While famously rainswept I think you mean stereotypically rainswept. 25m people, >40% of England, live around London where it actually doesn't rain very much at all. > The UK is one of the rainier places in Europe Yeah, that includes Wales, Scotland and NI, where it really does rain all the bloody time.

Sure, the SE isn't the rainiest place in Europe, but it's not a dry region. So sure, not "very" rainy, but somewhat rainy.

The rain that falls across the Thames basin has historically been distributed relatively evenly across months, compared to regions with monsoon seasons. That makes management easier.

I do expect supply to meet current demand. And afaics, it would, if the pipes didn't leak.

Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?

#214

Post by greyw »

bayarearefugee wrote: post #2

Don't worry about it. Just lower taxes on corporations and the wealthy and reduce regulations, the magic hand of the market will fix everything!!! :D

Last I heard the rich are leaving the UK eroding your tax base. Im sorry but it is going to be higher taxes for you all

Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?

#215

Post by ForHackernews »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #148
atoav wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privatization just means that if you were interested in the outcome before (having water), they are now interested in the money that can be extracted from it. And that means their interest is to but a modern branding onto an operation that has been stripped for wires as long as it works. I grew up during a privatization wave in my country and the promise of the proponents always was that private ownership means waste…

The "waste" argument is standard neoliberal nonsense. There are very few situations where the private sector provides a better service for less money. (See also the UK's NHS, which still provides a very efficient - if increasingly broken - service, while being starved of cash.) Like most neoliberal nonsense, it's not just a lie, it's a misdirection. What it really means is "Government money is being spent on providin…

Is the NHS "starved for money"? I don't disagree that it's verging on collapse, but they keep giving it more and more money. The budget goes up, both in real terms and as a percentage of GDP: https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn00...

How much would be enough? 15% of GDP, 20%, 50%?

I'm generally in favour of public services over ruthless privatization but I don't understand how Britain is to survive as a nation of nurses and pensioners supported by a tax base of Uber Eats riders.

Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?

#216

Post by psd1 »

hnhg wrote: post #37

Short answer is that the UK gave private companies to extract as much wealth as possible with minimal re-investment in infrastructure. The nation has since seen water rationing and raw sewage being pumped into rivers and beaches, but at least some shareholders have benefited, right?

Well tbf, there is a regulator and there are price controls. They've been given license to extract wealth, but not as much as possible.

I do share your bitterness. Free-market fundamentalists have flogged assets for years, and the cost to the citizens is some future government's problem.

Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?

#217

Post by alt227 »

Frieren wrote: post #3

> Future generations, who will be dealing with long, dry summers, would probably be shocked at the profligate way clean tap water was used to flush toilets, water gardens and run washing machines. Climate change means societal change. There was a time that Northern Africa was one of the best places in the world to grow crops. They were at the top of civilization for thousands of years. Climate changed, what people co…

> we did this to ourselves

I would argue that a small minority of the human race did this to the rest.

> the lack of foresight

Everybody on the planet is well aware of what is happening and why. Its not lack of foresight, it is pure ignorance and apathy of those who are making money off the backs of these tragedies.

Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?

#218

Post by tomrod »

krona wrote: post #210
ellen364 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on "a third of customer bills go on interest payments", I'd guess the original comment was about Thames Water. In 2023 their interest payments were 28% of revenue. They also made the news for dumping particularly large volumes of sewage into rivers. https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/dec/18/water-firms-us... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-67357566

> they also made the news for dumping particularly large volumes of sewage into rivers Yes and they have been fined for doing so, thus proving my point. These companies have statutory obligations . See the Water Industry Act 1991 and subsequent legislation.

So sewage wasn't dumped, because the law prevented it? Or sewage was dumped, and it was against the law?

I'm having a hard time reconciling the theoretical claims made in the thread with the blinding light of what actually happened.

Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?

#219

Post by mschuster91 »

coryrc wrote: post #162
mschuster91 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think most people would agree the government should not own oil companies, airlines, car manufacturers, steel manufacturers, or telecoms, etc. People are starting to revisit the idea that oil and steel manufacture should at least be held domestically, if not run by the government outright, given the current geopolitical situation. Let's talk straight: if China and India would close down export for steel, or if OP…

> And yes, that includes America, because most US refineries need OPEC oil for chemical composition reasons. I think you got that backwards, Venezuela needs US refineries because of chemical composition reasons. North America as a whole is self-sufficient. > People are starting to revisit the idea that oil and steel manufacture should at least be held domestically Oh good, lets push the inflation button even harder.…

> I can only hope steel manufacture can someday be as efficient and competitive as US boat building.

Better have expensive boats than no boats, particularly when preparing to wage war with a country that can be reached either by air - which means either missiles or nuclear bombers - or by water, the only option allowing for conventional warfare.

That's the thing we all have to prepare for, the inevitable confrontation with China.

In any case, the secret to cheap building is scale. When all you build is a few boats, planes or god knows what a year, of course each will be expensive. But if you build dozens, hundreds or - just look to WW2 - thousands of units, suddenly efficiencies of scale and standardization really kick in.

Re: How can England possibly be running out of water?

#220

Post by ahazred8ta »

octo888 wrote: post #154
komali2 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was fascinated on my recent trip to the UK to learn how much of their infrastructure they'd privatized semi-recently. Trains, hm, well it kinda works in Japan so maybe not so bad, but, water and SEWAGE??? In what universe does it make sense to have one of the most critical infrastructure systems, the backbone of health for a city, participate in a marketplace? Insanity. Not to mention the fact that at the end of th…

It makes perfect sense. The capitalists can constrain the supply, push up prices. And we Brits don't revolt – even protesting is highly legally-risky these days. Is there a better country to do such things? I don't think so

"Careful Now." "Down With This Sort of Thing." "Unmutual."
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