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EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

cointelegraph.com

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Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#211

Post by nickslaughter02 »

efitz wrote: post #44

Do citizens in the EU actually want this? If not, how are EU politicians so disconnected from their citizens? How did this state of affairs come to be? Is it reversible? In the US, our politicians don’t diverge quite as much, but when they do, the reason is money, and when it gets bad, we throw the bums out and elect populists. It’s not pretty and it’s messy but it self corrects with the next election if it doesn’t w…

There has not been a single article about this in my country which is "for" the proposal despite me writing to all major news outlets. My only conclusion is that they are complicit.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#213

Post by nickslaughter02 »

hsuduebc2 wrote: post #46

Even though it goes against all my beliefs and values, I still see it primarily as a desperate attempt to gain at least some means of control over encrypted tools — which are, in fact, constantly used for criminal activity. The endlessly recycled “think of the children” argument is laughably pathetic. I don't understand why they don't present the real and much more reasonable justifications — such as terrorism in Eur…

> the spread of propaganda, which is a genuine issue here

Now we are policing speech?

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#214

Post by nickslaughter02 »

SoftTalker wrote: post #80
johndhi wrote: post #51

Can someone explain how the same group of countries can simultaneously issue book-long regulations about how everyone needs to respect privacy to the nth degree, and run around the world trying to force others to do the same, yet also propose these kinds of things?

Same reason US Congress usually exempts itself from the laws it passes. Rules for thee but not for me. You can bet the MPs private messages will not be included.

EU ministers want to exempt themselves

https://european-pirateparty.eu/chatcontrol-eu-ministers-wan...

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#215

Post by nickslaughter02 »

JimDabell wrote: post #65
Cartoxy wrote: post #3

This seam like a hopeless endeavor. If circumvention takes little to no effort the people that are already committed to CSAM are going to CSAM. And everyone else will just hate the burdensome bloat, etc. If you know your not a theif having your bags checked after paying is an annoyance

> If circumvention takes little to no effort the people that are already committed to CSAM are going to CSAM. Meta made 1.8M CSAM reports to authorities in 2024 Q4 alone. An awful lot of these people aren’t taking any steps at all to avoid detection – they are posting it to social media. You can argue the ethics of this scanning all you want, but if you’re arguing that it won’t be effective then you’re wrong.

Have 1.8 million people been arrested? If not it's clear the detection got it wrong.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#216

Post by snarf21 »

integralid wrote: post #174
snarf21 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So there was no crime before Telegram? These kinds of things won't be used to stop malware or cybercrime anyway. They'll be used even more by those in power to subvert. The criminals will just move to another operating scheme.

Nice knee jerk reaction here (not just you, replies to me in general). We take down malicious domains and servers all the time. What's so special about group chats? As long as there is a proof it's used purely for criminal things and it's technically possible there is no excuse not to take them down. The same applies in the physical world. Police has no right to enter your house. Except when they have a warrant, beca…

I would argue that difference is that entering my group chat is the same as entering my house to install a listening device. If there is a warrant to tap someone's phone, that is based on probable cause not blanket surveillance. We don't shut down a bar just because some criminals hang out there.

Also, warrants are when there is evidence to suggest guilt. You are not known to be guilty. That is the point of the warrant, to collect more evidence to prove guilt.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#217

Post by munksbeer »

wqaatwt wrote: post #134
efitz wrote: post #44

Do citizens in the EU actually want this? If not, how are EU politicians so disconnected from their citizens? How did this state of affairs come to be? Is it reversible? In the US, our politicians don’t diverge quite as much, but when they do, the reason is money, and when it gets bad, we throw the bums out and elect populists. It’s not pretty and it’s messy but it self corrects with the next election if it doesn’t w…

Simple. The EU is hardly a democracy. It’s run almost entirely by appointed bureaucrats with delusions of grandeur. The European parliament is there but it’s very weak relative to actual national parliaments and most people unfortunately don’t really care that much about politics on the EU level..

I'm going to reply in the same way I did elsewhere. Nation states are the ones pushing this agenda, onto the commission, and the elected parliament votes on it.

People continue to misrepresent what the EU is and how it operates, which is actually harmful if you care about stuff like this. You're basically trying to send the message to everyone that they're powerless "because EU". The reality is that nation states are pushing this. If you want to signal your disapproval, write to your politicians, vote for different ones, both national and MEPs.

Unfortunately, this is simply a reflection of democracy. Most people are just not informed enough about this topic to care. We think it is a big deal here on reddit, but most of the population just ignore it.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#218

Post by munksbeer »

efitz wrote: post #44

Do citizens in the EU actually want this? If not, how are EU politicians so disconnected from their citizens? How did this state of affairs come to be? Is it reversible? In the US, our politicians don’t diverge quite as much, but when they do, the reason is money, and when it gets bad, we throw the bums out and elect populists. It’s not pretty and it’s messy but it self corrects with the next election if it doesn’t w…

My response here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44824742

In short: fault of the nation states, not the EU. Most EU people won't even be aware of this, the same in other countries around the world. We here care, most people don't. Sadly.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#219

Post by loeg »

bccdee wrote: post #185
loeg wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Criminals aren't very smart and don't think about their actions or the consequences very much.

That's not true. You're stereotyping criminals. People who commit assault, petty robbery, public indecency, etc. are probably on the whole not brilliant. But how about fraud, embezzlement, or parking infractions? Given that we're talking about cybercrime here, what are the odds that the criminals in question are too dumb to Google "how can i get around whatsapp image scanning"?

It's a general statement; there is always individual variation. It is also generally true of fraudsters and cybercriminals.

Re: EU proposal to scan all private messages gains momentum

#220

Post by mirko22 »

izacus wrote: post #168
mirko22 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this BS? Where is democracy in Von der Leyen making deal with USA for example, who voted for that? Most of the representatives there are local tokens that are there to pull EU money in the pockets of their parties. EU is artificial state made only out of interest of political elites.

Provide proof for your claims please.

Proof of what?
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