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US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

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Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#211

Post by jfengel »

bit1993 wrote: post #104
ezst wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With this administration, it's probably just more blackmail, in the form of "it would be a pity if nobody came to the rescue when China eventually puts its Taiwan plans in motion! (Not that playing ball is a guarantee of anything either)".

> it would be a pity if nobody came to the rescue when China eventually puts its Taiwan plans in motion! Wouldn't that just mean that Taiwan has to choose between two villains, and China can take the advantage of this by changing its narrative and taking the position as a hero, protecting Taiwan from the US.

Taiwan really, really does not want to be part of China.

Or rather, they see themselves as the legitimate government of China, which is undergoing a temporary Communist junta. The separation was extremely violent. I mean, you saw the Three Body Problem.

The US fosters this, to retain a toehold there. Taiwan doesn't exactly love us for it, but they know which side their bread is buttered on.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#212

Post by antonvs »

throwawaylaptop wrote: post #178
davidw wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just last week, the director of the Bureau of Labor Statistics was fired because the jobs numbers didn't look good and that upset the person in charge.

[flagged]

Pro tip: don't parrot government talking points if you're not familiar with the issues.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#213

Post by Dr4kn »

ezst wrote: post #47
cherryteastain wrote: post #32

Tariffs kinda make sense when you have a deficit in a widely available item. Big trade deficit with Bangladesh? Sure you can buy cheap textiles from Thailand or Vietnam or something. Unfortunately this approach does not work when you lack a viable domestic alternative and you're up against a monopoly. What will the US do if TSMC does not blink? Not buy TSMC made chips? Obviously that is impossible, so the logical con…

With this administration, it's probably just more blackmail, in the form of "it would be a pity if nobody came to the rescue when China eventually puts its Taiwan plans in motion! (Not that playing ball is a guarantee of anything either)".

Every promise of this administration is worthless, so why even bother? Either they protect you, because they don't want the chip tech to fall to China or they don't.

Buying half of Intel isn't going to change anything

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#214

Post by nosignono »

Waterluvian wrote: post #180
duxup wrote: post #2

This whole economy by corruption and coercion is not going to work out.

I’m convinced that this is all what it looks like to live through the end of an empire (or whatever term you’d like). I think our lives are short enough that it can be easy to perceive something like America as “always was, always will be” and the rest is just trivia you learn in history class.

The collapse of an empire is correct. USA is absolutely an empire, and we're clearly seeing unprecedented contractions and spasms of our government as it ineffectually attempts to govern while doing everything it can to foment civil agitation.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#215

Post by cyphertruck »

phkahler wrote: post #38

On the surface, buying 49 percent of Intel wouldn't infuse the company with any capital. It would just bail out investors.

It actually wouldn't. The sale price will be pretty close to the current market price, maybe %10 more. If the Government kicks in funds to underwrite the deal (say a loan to TSMC) then the deal would likely happen exactly at market price.

That means investors who sell are getting the current low market price or a little bit higher--- they will still be down the massive amount.

This is really bailing out current management-- letting them be replaced by the more capable TSMC people and getting an attaboy for helping the US government strengthen the alliance with Taiwan, keeping peace in the region.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#216

Post by nosignono »

exasperaited wrote: post #208
Waterluvian wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m convinced that this is all what it looks like to live through the end of an empire (or whatever term you’d like). I think our lives are short enough that it can be easy to perceive something like America as “always was, always will be” and the rest is just trivia you learn in history class.

> I’m convinced that this is all what it looks like to live through the end of an empire (or whatever term you’d like). It feels to me like it's more like the beginning of an empire, in the sense of existing under an emperor. > I think our lives are short enough that it can be easy to perceive something like America as “always was, always will be” and the rest is just trivia you learn in history class. I think it ver…

The US president has been an emperor in all but title for generations at least.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#217

Post by cyphertruck »

duxup wrote: post #2

This whole economy by corruption and coercion is not going to work out.

This isn't corruption or coercion. This is a deal. These are terms being offered. They can say no, or counter. But these terms benefit all parties-- TSMC can eventually buy out intel, get lots of top end fabs, bring their superior processes to those fabs and meet the huge demand in AI chips-- that they currently can't grow fast enough to cover. ASML machines take years to build... a better TSMC process on existing ASML machines in Intel fabs is an easy %30 win for the entire world.

Plus, china kept at bay, peace increased, intel's bad management gets to bail out saving face, TSMC gets rewarded for their hard work, Trump gets a win, Intel's employees get better management, and get rich from their stock options winning hugely....

Capitalism is where everyone wins like this.

Even china, because china loses if it goes to war, but china feels it has to go to war.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#218

Post by antonvs »

leptons wrote: post #93
xyst wrote: post #39

If US steps in to buy a troubled asset such as Intel after failing to convince TSMC to buy, this country is cooked. Did we learn _nothing_ from the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis? Let them fail.

>Did we learn _nothing_ from the 2008 subprime mortgage crisis? Let them fail. 2025 says "hold my beer"

If by "we" you mean anyone in the current administration, the answer is an obvious no. Learning is not their thing.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#219

Post by cyphertruck »

araes wrote: post #78
duxup wrote: post #2

This whole economy by corruption and coercion is not going to work out.

The article pretty much says it right in the opening section > investing a further $400 billion in the US alongside buying a stake in Intel seems improbable from a purely financial standpoint TSMC's entire assets are ~$200,000,000,000 [1] (cash, inventory, accounts receivable, land, buildings and equipment.) Buying 49% of Intel ... maybe. Intel's outstanding Market Cap is current ~$88,600,000,000. (4,377,000,000 outs…

That money will be provided via a loan, from the US Government, at a reasonable interest rate. USG doesn't lose money, TSMC gets to expand into all of Intels fabs (when they raise the money to buy a controlling interest in INTC down the line.)

Or the entire thing can be done by a stock swap, with whoever diluting themselves however amount is necessary, etc.

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