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Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

blog.kilocode.ai

211–220 of 363 posts

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm sure that is how many photographers felt about digital cameras and photo editing software when it first came. Now very few professional photographers work without digital cameras and photo editing software (even if it is just to tweak some colors). Yes, you will still have some artists making money with purely analog cameras without any touch up but they are a tiny minority of the photographers getting paid for t…

> I'm sure that is how many photographers felt about digital cameras and photo editing software when it first came.

And for a few decades at least it was true. The technology was shite compared to film photography for a long time. The same will probably be true for AI, as full developer replacement will require AGI.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#212
post #74

anthropic is blaming its users "we wouldn't have to do this if you guys weren't so naughty. No TV for you. "

That’s just typical for any company that promises unlimited usage and then can’t deliver. The sad truth is that the “unlimited” wording attracts tons of users who will never come close to being a power user making a dent in their profits.

That would be a great argument if they ever promised unlimited usage. They didn't.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#213
post #43

anthropic is blaming its users "we wouldn't have to do this if you guys weren't so naughty. No TV for you. "

I ate all my vegetables at dinner, you promised tv if I ate all the broccoli.

you ate too much dessert that we left it out. you were supposed to know not eat too much.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#214

When you offer "unlimited", you're immediately exposing yourself to the 0.1% of userbase that will absolutely treat it is unlimited. Whale users/hoarders. This has been a known problem since the dawn of hosting...hell, it goes back to times before computers. One thing I miss for the other users, i.e. the casual users that never use anywhere near of their quota, is rollover. If you haven't used your quota this month,…

One does find it occasionally. My mobile phone plan (in Sweden) currently says that I have 774G left of my 25G/month quota for example :)

Thank you, Hallon - I've been on the same plan for the last four years and I don't think I've ever checked my data quota :)

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#215
post #195

Can I create an account with email on Kilo Code or only "Sign in with Google"? I couldn't see such an option.

Would you use GitHub auth?

Yes. I would still prefer the old email/pass though, so I don't depend on a 3rd party being online, etc.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Claude definitely engage in some shady and illegal behavior. I wanted to see what the annual plan would cost as it was just displaying €170+VAT, and when I clicked the upgrade button to find out (I checked everywhere on the page) then I was automatically subscribed without any confirmation and without ever seeing the final price before the transaction was completed. Turns out that price was €206.50. Getting refunded…

You might not have noticed in all the frustration, but you got overcharged. 170 + 20% VAT is 204, not 206.50. Maybe they added a card fee in at the end, but if they didn’t make that abundantly clear, they’ve broken a law in most countries which use the Euro.

VAT is not 20% everywhere worldwide.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#217
While I agree with the base statement that makes up the title, I cannot get behind the rest of this idea that the heaviest users somehow "matter most". They cost the most, certainly. But how do they matter the most?

But hey, this is just a sales pitch from one company I wouldn't trust by taking a dump on another company I wouldn't trust.

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#218
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cognitive augmentation that allows developers to navigate complexity at scales human cognition wasn't designed for I don't think you should use LLMs for something you can't master without. > will find themselves unable to compete I'd wait a bit more before concluding so affirmatively. The AI bubble would very much like us to believe this, but we don't yet know very well the long term effects of using LLMs on code,…

Two masters go head to head. One uses AI tools (wisely - after all, they're a master!), the other refuses to. Which one wins? To your second point -- With as much capital as is going into data center buildout, the increasing availability of local coding LLMs that near the performance of today's closed models, and the continued innovation on both open/closed models, you're going to hang your hat on the possibility tha…

> Which one wins?

We don't really know yet, that's my point. There are contradictory studies on the topic. See for instance [1] that sees productivity decrease when AI is used. Other studies show the opposite. We are also seeing the first wave of blog posts from developers abandoning the LLMs.

What's more, most people are not masters. This is critically important. If only masters see a productivity increase, others should not use it... and will still get employed because the masters won't fill in all the positions. In this hypothetical world, masters not using LLMs also have a place by construction.

> With as much capital as is going into

Yes, we are in a bubble. And some are predicting it will burst.

> the continued innovation

That's what I'm not seeing. We are seeing small but very costly improvements on a paradigm that I consider fundamentally flawed for the tasks we are using it for. LLMs still cannot reason, and that's IMHO a major limitation.

> you're going to hang your hat on the possibility that LLMs are going to be only available in a 'limited or degraded' state?

I didn't say I was going to, but since you are asking: oh yes, I'm not putting my eggs in a box that could abruptly disappear or become very costly.

I simply don't see how this thing is going to be cost efficient. The major SaaS LLM providers can't seem to manage profitability, and maybe at some point the investors will get bored and stop sending billions of dollars towards them? I'll reconsider when and if LLMs become economically viable.

But that's not my strongest reason to avoid the LLMs anyway:

- I don't want to increase my reliance on SaaS (or very costly hardware)

- I have not caved in yet in participating in this environmental disaster, and in this work pillaging phenomenon (well, that last part, I guess I don't really have a choice, I see the dumb AI bots hammering my forgejo instance).

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016649722...

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anthropic bait and switch what was the bait and switch? where in the launch announcement ( https://www.anthropic.com/news/max-plan ) did they suggest it provided unlimited inference?

so where did 'bad users' come from if users were simply doing what they were allowed to? why is anthropic tweeting about 'naughty users that ruined it for everyone' ?

I don't understand your comment.

they launched Claude Max (and Pro) as being limited. it was limited before, and it's limited now, with a new limit to discourage 24/7 maxing of it.

in what way was there a bait and switch?

Re: Stop selling “unlimited”, when you mean “until we change our minds”

#220
unlimited is a marketing word but once it turns to juridical, it sucks.

some say they have to define a huge limit and that's it.

Limits are sometime hard to define :

- they must be such huge, a user (human) finaly understand it's unlimited else he will compare to competitors

- but no such huge because the 0.1% of users will try to reach it

A fair word could be the one which categorize the type of use :

- human : human has physical limit (e.g: typing word to keyboard / per time).

- bot : from 1 arduino to heavyweight hardcore clusting, virtualy no limits.

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