Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

211–220 of 354 posts

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#211

Post by Aperocky »

Occams Razor says no.

A proper ebike won't stand a chance against the modern queen stage of the tour de france, even if ridden by a professional with appropriate gears otherwise, because the battery would run out half way on the first HC and it would just be a very heavy bike for the rest of the stage.

Same with a tiny motor - you gain tiny amount of force but you'll have to carry a full bidon with you on all the climbs, not to mention that the delicate mechanism can break easily.

I'd rather believe they're doping.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#212

Post by jakewins »

Aperocky wrote: post #211

Occams Razor says no. A proper ebike won't stand a chance against the modern queen stage of the tour de france, even if ridden by a professional with appropriate gears otherwise, because the battery would run out half way on the first HC and it would just be a very heavy bike for the rest of the stage. Same with a tiny motor - you gain tiny amount of force but you'll have to carry a full bidon with you on all the cli…

A hybrid car trivially improves total energy input needed, since it replaces braking by generating heat by braking by storing energy later to be reused.

The same should he true here, right? The added energy needed to carry the weight of the motor would be easily overcome by the gains from regenerative braking?

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#213

Post by jrm4 »

datadrivenangel wrote: post #182
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relative to other sports it doesn't require much skill that can't be easily quantified. The person who can produce the most Watts over the required window is a strong favorite. I assume that doping simply makes a difference in a way it doesn't for skiing or soccer, and probably not as much as even swimming or running.

Skijumping has routine cheating with clothing that gives too much lift by being thicker than the regulations.

I mean, hard for me to regard this as "cheating" worth taking seriously. Unless those clothes have little propellers in 'em. :)

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#214

Post by peter422 »

cvwright wrote: post #210
david-gpu wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is actually a lot of strategy in road cycling. Remember for one thing that there are teams -- ask yourself why is that.

But like Jorgenson said this year, there’s no tactics that can beat Pogi going up a steep hill at 7w/kg. At some point it all comes down to power to weight.

Stage 21 was a great example of how tactics can beat a stronger rider. Pogacar was probably the strongest but Matteo burned up his energy chasing attacks in the final lap and then at the right moment WvA was ready to pounce and take the stage.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#215

Post by adolph »

Aperocky wrote: post #211

Occams Razor says no. A proper ebike won't stand a chance against the modern queen stage of the tour de france, even if ridden by a professional with appropriate gears otherwise, because the battery would run out half way on the first HC and it would just be a very heavy bike for the rest of the stage. Same with a tiny motor - you gain tiny amount of force but you'll have to carry a full bidon with you on all the cli…

Its real and I find it technologically fascinating as they were using the frame and wheel as motor.

  In January 2016 – almost six years after initial allegations of a pro cyclist 
  doping mechanically – the first confirmed use of "mechanical doping" in the 
  sport was discovered at the 2016 UCI Cyclo-cross World Championships when one 
  of the bikes of Belgian cyclist Femke Van den Driessche was found to have a 
  secret motor inside. One blogger described it as the worst scandal in cycling 
  since the doping scandal that engulfed Lance Armstrong in 2012.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_doping

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#216

Post by jackmottatx »

motorest wrote: post #176
jackmottatx wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He had first hand direct information about that stuff. Not true about motors. I believed him 100% about EPO but the motor stuff is silly. they check for motors for over a decade now.

> I believed him 100% about EPO but the motor stuff is silly. they check for motors for over a decade now. If it's silly then why are they trying to counter it for over a decade?

[dead]

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#217

Post by azan_ »

bsenftner wrote: post #187
motorest wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sports + capitalism is bad already (...) I love a good bashing, but are you aware doping runs rampant in amateur levels of any sport or even physical activity? Why do you presume that competitions would be different?

That's why I include "massive leagues". If a city or school district is large enough to impel doping, the entire premise of sport is undermined. Why even bother, the entire enterprise becomes nothing about the sport and everything about "getting noticed, using this platform to stairstep to going pro!!!" It is just exploitative capitalism driving people insane.

That’s completely wrong and you are just making things up to fit your anticapitalist world view. I know people that take dope to break 3h in marathon, trust me, no one thinks that you will get any financial benefit from breaking 3h.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#218

Post by jackmottatx »

pmontra wrote: post #196
motorest wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believed him 100% about EPO but the motor stuff is silly. they check for motors for over a decade now. If it's silly then why are they trying to counter it for over a decade?

Because where there are no checks there are the cheaters. Example: there is no antidoping in amateur races. Amateurs dope themselves to win those races.

[dead]

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#219

Post by nluken »

jakewins wrote: post #212
Aperocky wrote: post #211

Occams Razor says no. A proper ebike won't stand a chance against the modern queen stage of the tour de france, even if ridden by a professional with appropriate gears otherwise, because the battery would run out half way on the first HC and it would just be a very heavy bike for the rest of the stage. Same with a tiny motor - you gain tiny amount of force but you'll have to carry a full bidon with you on all the cli…

A hybrid car trivially improves total energy input needed, since it replaces braking by generating heat by braking by storing energy later to be reused. The same should he true here, right? The added energy needed to carry the weight of the motor would be easily overcome by the gains from regenerative braking?

These guys are not using their brakes nearly enough to make up for the amount of power they would use on the climbs, even on the descents.

Re: Tour de France confronts a new threat: Are cyclists using tiny motors?

#220

Post by zettabomb »

jakewins wrote: post #212
Aperocky wrote: post #211

Occams Razor says no. A proper ebike won't stand a chance against the modern queen stage of the tour de france, even if ridden by a professional with appropriate gears otherwise, because the battery would run out half way on the first HC and it would just be a very heavy bike for the rest of the stage. Same with a tiny motor - you gain tiny amount of force but you'll have to carry a full bidon with you on all the cli…

A hybrid car trivially improves total energy input needed, since it replaces braking by generating heat by braking by storing energy later to be reused. The same should he true here, right? The added energy needed to carry the weight of the motor would be easily overcome by the gains from regenerative braking?

Only if the motor were in the hub of the wheel, which given the typical size of the hubs, seems even less likely. Remember that bicycle drivetrains are typically one-way due to the ratchet, so you can't apply braking force via the chain.
Post reply on HN