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Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

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Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#211

Post by spacephysics »

mycodendral wrote: post #24

I don't think this issue has been reported on the P365/x-macro platform, for those discourage by this unfortunate situation. Different striker system.

Yeah, i heard the P320 was originally a non-striker system that they modified to become a striker system to try and save research/development costs from creating a striker system from the ground up, which led to these wildly low tolerances in the FCU and ultimately a poorly designed firearm.

I’ve heard of no issues from the P365 models. A knowledgeable firearm instructor I talked to mentioned the P320 and P365 are entirely different designs internally, and the P365 holds up to Sigs (previously) positive reputation

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#212

Post by giraffe_lady »

not_a_bot_4sho wrote: post #117
chasd00 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t conceal carry but it’s commonly known that you don’t draw your weapon unless you’re shooting to kill. In those situations, if there was time to chamber a round then there was time to escape. If you draw your weapon as a warning or, worse, fire warning shots you’ll be arrested for brandishing at least.

> if there was time to chamber a round then there was time to escape This is only true for Usain Bolt. Chambering on draw adds 0.5s or so. For me, that's acceptable for any scenario outside of a pistols at dawn duel in front of an old west saloon.

> pistols at dawn duel in front of an old west saloon

Probably not much less likely than a lot of the scenarios people are fantasizing about in here.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#213

Post by ivraatiems »

spl757 wrote: post #133

There are really two separate claims being made about the P320 and unintentional discharges. One claim is that the gun can fire when dropped at a certain angle from a certain height. The voluntary "recall" lets you send it back to Sig and they replace some parts. I think the cause was because the trigger itself was bulky enough for a drop to give it enough inertia to fire, but I'm not 100% sure on that. The other cla…

It's a shame, because it is a super nice gun to actually shoot.

But at this point, given how Sig has responded (the article has a nice summary), the cover-up is bigger than the crime, almost. The trust is broken at an organizational level.

I don't feel like all manufacturers would respond like this, and it isn't the response I expect from somebody reputable.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#214

Post by willis936 »

mNovak wrote: post #205
Khaine wrote: post #129

Ian from Forgotten Weapons posted an interesting video on this a while back: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QusWrho19zE And then a more recent follow up https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3iWVs2uD1XY

Just watching this, and he's saying this model has no manual safety. That's an absolutely wild design choice in my mind!

Sig makes many handguns like that and many of them are standard issue for law enforcement in US municipalities.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#215

Post by lenerdenator »

Alupis wrote: post #183
303uru wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not taking odds on an edc item which takes a lot of banging around. Glock 18 is a simple choice.

I'm still very curious why the P320 beat out the venerable Glock 17 & 19 combo in the Army's recent selection. It would seem being able to change from duty to compact is more of a gimmick than practical. I'd wager most P320's will spend their service life in exactly one configuration. Sig does have a way of making every pistol feel like it was custom molded to your hand - but Glocks "Just Work".

"I just want them to make one with a damn thumb safety and if this competition won't make them do it, nothing will." - some US Army ordinance guy about Glock, probably.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#216

Post by asa400 »

why_at wrote: post #180
esseph wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Search "brandishing laws"

I'm familiar with the idea of "brandishing" being illegal, but I looked it up anyway. I found https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menacing which says "Self-defense is often explicitly given as an exception." It seems like then it would be legal to draw a gun without firing if it was in self defense? I have a hard time believing that there are any cases where shooting someone in self defense would be legal, but scaring them…

This is not exactly what you’re referencing but I bring it up to show just how complicated things can be: Minnesota recently ruled that you do not have the right to use deadly force if you have the opportunity to escape.

And this is the crucial bit, quoting the article: “The court decided the principle also applies to people who merely use the threat of force — meaning one cannot pull a weapon in self-defense if there are other means to escape, even if the person is threatening them with death or bodily harm.”

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/minnesota/news/minnesota-supreme...

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#217

Post by ungreased0675 »

supportengineer wrote: post #107
giantg2 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This policy should tell you something about the actual cost/benefit of private arms as far as overall safety goes. Cuts through the noise and hypotheticals rather nicely." Yes, most people will feel quite safe in a secured facility with controlled access, simialar to court houses. Imagine living in a place where everyone has been vetted and the perimeter is secured with armed guards.

This is a genius idea. Sell on-base housing to safety-minded civilians. The HOA fees will generate a tidy profit.

Believe it or not, the general public can live in military housing. When the number of vacant homes on any base rises above a certain level, the housing contractor can rent them to anyone it likes. This isn’t common, but it’s possible.

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#219

Post by ummonk »

There is a lot of accidental discharge happening when people holster their pistol improperly and the trigger snags on something or they inadvertently press the trigger while grabbing it. However, I’ve seen at least one footage of a Sig 320 discharging while properly holstered (Sig tried to claim the retention hood wasn’t properly closed but it clearly was): https://youtube.com/watch?v=OSAI_HUZDI0

Re: Air Force unit suspends use of Sig Sauer pistol after shooting death of airman

#220

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

Khaine wrote: post #129

Ian from Forgotten Weapons posted an interesting video on this a while back: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QusWrho19zE And then a more recent follow up https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3iWVs2uD1XY

And a humorous "solution" to the problem: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/I_p6XEB1ySo
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