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Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

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Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If we just accepted, "hey, some people are like that" more, I think we'd have a lot fewer problems. This is how much of the world works. Johnny doesn't have autism, he's just really into trains. It would be incredibly rude to say much more.

Hacker news (or social media in general) echo chamber

yeah HN isn't very good about that.

well off educated people looking to rationalize whatever they think about society, interactions, etc. lotta people here living in a bubble.

great tech discussions sometimes, tho.

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Serious question: what's your skin color and where do you live? The obsession with skin color and race seems to be a very US-American thing.

Its as American as apple pie and baseball.

> Its as American as apple pie and baseball.

Concerning apple pie, I disagree: I know Russians who are similarly obsessed about шарлотка [transcription: sharlotka] (a Russian apple pie). :-)

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#213

I am hesitant to post this because of JFK JR and ignoring with the politicians in power against ASD. Gait is not constant in the stride. It all depends on the footwear. The constant for me is being silent while walking. Be the ball of your feet or the heels. Having auditory issues / sensitive to sound, I walk to be silent and unheard. Walking and scaring wildlife and other humans was a personally taught process. I ca…

> I want to walk up to a person and they don't know. That’s usually not cool.

I had an old bike that was fairly noisy. I got a new bike that is remarkably silent. I try to use my bell or my voice but I still end up sneaking up on people all the time and, as you said, they don’t enjoy it.

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#214
post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have autism and experience dysfunction at such a small level that you can put the blame on other people, then consider yourself extremely lucky. I volunteer at an autism center and many of those individuals struggle to maintain hygiene, feed themselves, and perform other basic aspects of living in ways that persist regardless of how tolerant their peers may or may not be. Of course, these individuals are not a…

I guess the question is why did we start labeling slightly socially awkward people as the same category as the people you describe in the first place?

The labeling of every little thing as a pathology is part of a broader trend. Nobody can be down for a few weeks, it must be a "depressive episode". If you feel nervous before a big test or presentation, you have "anxiety". It's an overcorrection from the under-diagnosing of the past, and a phenomenon reflective of the intensely political environment around funding for research and services. You could say it may have to do with increasing billables, you could say it's because sub-clinical cases might still benefit from a few sessions of therapy that are covered by insurance only with an insurance code, but whatever.

In the case of autism, "social awkwardness" used to fall under aspergers, a diagnosis that was removed over the protestations of many aspergers advocacy organizations in the DSM-V. See, the DSM-V was massively influenced by a lobbying effort or "intelligence" operation. They were hugely focused on things like eradicating any mention of "sub-clinical" autism or recovery criteria. The abolition of aspergers was a concerted effort to essentially force people with aspergers to fight the stigma suffered by "somebody who might have to wear adult diapers and maybe a head-restraining device." As the committee representatives claimed, "it was our belief that the best way to address stigma was to confront it across the spectrum. Why did we deserve protection that other autistic people did not receive?"

"This was... reflective of our commitment to 'cross-spectrum solidarity'." To be clear, this was an effort towards imposed "solidarity", where people with one disorder that often presented mildly enough they could make an attempt at passing for normal were forced to identify as and engage in activism on behalf of said adult-diaper-wearers if they wanted recognition, destigmatization, or access to services. It was an effort I can see only as malign to re-stigmatize or explicitly block "normalization" for those who could enjoy it.

Really, the consolidation of autism into one "spectrum" diagnosis involving a massively diverse constellation of systems was a political mistake not a scientific choice. It's one based fundamentally on presentation, not on etiology, despite dealing with a massively polygenic disease that appears to have many different potential causes. It only served to slow down efforts towards management and a cure (no surprise, given many "advocate" types continue to assert it is simply wrong that the world has norms in a tone similar to those deaf people who oppose cochlear implants.)

You can see this intellectual thread carried forward to recent times. A piece from 2023 reflects very similar sentiments, essentially saying that the consolidation of diagnoses is good because it "[protects] the most vulnerable": https://www.thetransmitter.org/spectrum/weaponized-heterogen...

Those who have a shot at a "normal" life passing as "normal" are, naturally, not considered. You can see this pretty easily in the basic framing of the issue as "access to services", services which Asperger's patients required and used much less. This was a transparent and explicit effort to lower chances of "normalcy" in an attempt to benefit those who didn't have a shot at it; the "solidarity" framing was, in that sense, completely honest. I see it as nothing less than ascientific and contemptible.

(Much of this information is drawn from a paper the two men who liased with the DSM-V committee wrote some years later and which may be found here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337112539_Lobbying_...)

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#215

I'm sure everyone involved means well, but we are really starting to embrace a culture of defining "normal" down to some arbitrary amount that seems to have no floor. I'm all for making sure that effective treatments are made available to anyone they might help, but couldn't a lot of this be addressed society just...being tolerant of diversity in people? Gating everyone through "thrives in American High School" as a…

The redefinition of "autism" from "can't talk, stims constantly, maybe bangs head against the wall, serious danger to themselves" to "kinda awkward savant" seems like it has been profoundly harmful to people who want to find new therapies for those in the former group. Maybe normalizing it was a way for insurance companies and school districts to get out of funding appropriate measures for people who literally can no…

It hasn't been redefined at all, you just weren't aware of all the intricacies and conflated every possible symptom into one large, uncommon stereotype, while in reality people in the spectrum are more common than you think but show some symptoms more than others and some not at all.

John, 38 yo virgin, spending 50% of his income on Gundam figurines while living with his aging mother and having no IRL friends is supposedly not "autistic enough" for you if he can hold a job, walk and talk normally? What about that one girl you went to high school with who couldn't stop talking about Supernatural and had a full-on meltdown in front of the whole class on more than one occasion, to the point where she had no friends by junior year and got severely depressed?

These characters were seen as "just weird" until actual scientists started figuring out they were autistic, and now they might have a better life with treatment and the necessary disability benefits

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#216
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The redefinition of "autism" from "can't talk, stims constantly, maybe bangs head against the wall, serious danger to themselves" to "kinda awkward savant" seems like it has been profoundly harmful to people who want to find new therapies for those in the former group. Maybe normalizing it was a way for insurance companies and school districts to get out of funding appropriate measures for people who literally can no…

Autism wasn't redefined like that. Not by the medical community. Social media took hold and it became the new OCD. People think liking straight lines on their desk means they have OCD. Same with autism, people think not liking a loud noise is autism. I think a lot of people confuse neurodivergent with autistic as well. The whole field needs a reorganization anyway. I've talked to dozens of therapists about this and I…

"Neurodivergent" doesn't exist, it's just an umbrella term for any neurodevelopmental disorder (such as ADHD, autism, Tourette's, intellectual disability)

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#217

Honest question: What does this really bring to the table as a diagnostic tool for autism? By the time that you're evaluating gait, you're evaluating a lot of other things, too, since autism usually starts appearing during childhood. Obvious things, like trouble socializing, learning, and processing stimuli. I'm not a doctor or involved in any sort of diagnosis, treatment, or curing of diseases or conditions, but giv…

I think the research on this is not really about diagnosis tools, but about understanding autism. What even is this disorder that makes you have such wide effects as not being able to look people in the eyes to walking weird to even pooping weird? Why does it make you like some stuff more than other stuff, too?

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#218
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose, beyond making fun of which is unacceptable, that some behaviour is considered "bad behaviour" if it would come from a "non-particular" person. People are highly sensitive to eye contact, voice tone and other subtleties to gage how the other person is feeling and how much of a threat they are. Similarly, overtaking conversations or appearing disinterested are also faux-pas in normal conversation and may ind…

> you'd just start any conversation with "hey, I'm autistic, so if I appear a bit weird..." Then people will criticize you for making autism your whole identity. Which is a silly point to make but people can be pricks. Not saying you gave bad advice, just saying, it a damned if you do, damned if you don't with some people. I think it is generally good to be open about it, if not just to filter out intolerant people f…

You might even say that some neurodivergence is an adaptive strategy to quickly identify a potential threat.

Many sapiens like to believe they are good people, but they don't like to to think about what that really means. It seems we are talking about a filter that identifies such people very quickly.

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#219
post #18

For some reason, I dislike seeing people that walk "funny". I am particularly disgusted by people that walk with their feet facing outward a little too much.

"Too much, because that's what their childhood development, joint and bone structure, plantar situation, weight, style, etc does?

I'll quote a Bible teacher: "Wanting others to be like us is devilish."

Re: Signs of autism could be encoded in the way you walk

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree, as an autistic person. And a lot of autistic people hold the belief that, "My autism is not a problem, your expectations that I behave like you do are the problem." If I need to move a little differently, or not hold eye contact when I speak, the fact that I get made fun of is the problem. If we just accepted, "hey, some people are like that" more, I think we'd have a lot fewer problems.

The eye contact thing is interesting. I hate to make eye contact because I concentrate better when not watching the other person. And then I remember I should and it gets creepy because I am staring. This is to say that everyone is slightly different and a healthy dose of tolerance goes a long way. After all, some of your behaviour is probably annoying to others and you do not even realize it.

My eyesight’s rubbish. I learn very little from looking at people’s eyes. I almost never remember eye colours. It just doesn’t register because I “don’t see it”.

I have to make a special effort to make eye contact, and when I do I feel like my “trying to see better” habits and postures make others uncomfortable. I’ve no idea what “normal eye contact” feels like.

I might also have some autism traits (I’m a coder, after all), so that feeds into it.. but even if I wasn’t coder/austistic, I’d be struggling in this domain.

I offer this as anecdata for your “everyone is different” suggestion.

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