Live data from Hacker News

Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

open-web-advocacy.org

211–220 of 394 posts

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#211

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

Yeah it's so stupid. I'm this close to ditching them.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#212

Even if you get past the roadblocks Apple has put in place, it’s not beer and skittles for browser makers in the EU. The CRA, which is now in effect, lists browsers as class I important products. Technical documentation, design documentation, user documentation, security conformance testing, a declared support period at the time of download, software bill of materials, the legal obligation to respond to and make all…

We are not generally used to this in our field but just think about the amount of paperwork you have to go through in order to construct a bridge or an airplane. Browsers have become a critical component and it seem not really unexpected that there will eventually be legal requirements to help to ensure that browsers are safe given the amount of software that runs on top of browsers. And this is also not new, there have been legal requirements for all kinds of software for a long time, you will just not think about those unless you work in an affected area.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this is why the EU's GDP versus the US is now only 65% and shrinking. The regulations are about beating US companies into compliance, sometimes with righteous motives; but there's no forethought on how a domestic EU startup might be able to comply, or how a startup would convince investors to take the gamble.

you mean the US GDP is bigger because the US lacks consumer and environmental protection?

We can look at China that is focused on growth at all costs. If you look at rare earth metals, they're equally distributed but they are toxic to extract. The west has pretty much stopped extracting. China is still going full steam ahead. https://e360.yale.edu/features/china-wrestles-with-the-toxic...

China would bulldoze my hometown in 2 seconds if it meant an addition 0.1 GDP. I would say that the US is between Europe and China for balancing GDP vs protecting its citizens.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also extremely annoying that they implement their own share menu that you have to do an extra tap on to get to the native share menu. Amazon does this as well. I assume it's so they can track what option you choose.

Reddit does this, too. It is used to measure sharing something as some sort of analytic/goal on your account for engagement. I tend to just screenshot them now after the annoying middle menu started popping up for me. I really am not a fan of apps wanting me to engage more with the app when I'm trying to engage with real-life people.

Reddit also has that annoying pop-up when you screenshot something. “Sending this post to someone? It looks better when you share it.”

Perhaps they mean it looks better for Reddit’s smarmy user engagement metrics.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#215

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

I notice something similar in GrapheneOS. I have Play Services installed, but have never installed Google Maps.

When I click on a Google Maps link, I get asked by the OS if I want to open it using an app from the store (GMaps). I say no, go to google.com/maps and then get asked if I want to use the app or "Keep using Web". And of course at each stage, it could remember my choice, but it does not.

Bing's mobile UI is highly annoying, covering half the map by default with "recommendations". I still use it rather than Google whenever possible. Though I do use Waze when driving.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#216

Edit: they finally did allow JIT for browsers. The article doesn’t mention Apple’s persistent refusal of JIT support for 3rd party JavaScript engines, which is a main barrier to implementing a performant 3rd party browser.

They relaxed that for browser makers: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/browserenginekit/p...

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#217

Relatedly, all Google apps (e.g. Maps) on iOS try very hard to push Chrome on you (even though iOS Chrome still has to use WebKit). When you click an external link, they present you the options of Chrome, Google (the search app), or Safari. This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage. If you choose Safari, it still doesn't open Safari,…

> This happens even if you don't have Chrome/Google installed, so they take you to the App Store instead of opening the webpage.

Curious which Android flavour this is on. I'm running stock Android & I've found:

1. Chrome app can be set to "Disabled", but cannot be entirely uninstalled

2. When modifying any system settings that involve choosing defaults from a list of apps that could include Chrome, Chrome still appears (despite being "Disabled") & if chosen for that action opens up Chrome surprisingly fast & is magically suddenly no longer "Disabled".

On the contrary, I have not had the issue you describe with Google apps (I mainly use Gmail & Maps & both always open Firefox for me with no reversions). I also have an iPhone (for work) & Apple's complete disregard for browser defaults for links opened from most apps (including 3rd-party) drives me insane. Slack opens in Firefox but most other apps give me a popup with only Safari & (ironically) Chrome as options - clicking Chrome brings me to the App Store.

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#218
post #6

This Apple policy is the only thing stopping chrome from having a full monopoly, and we should be careful trying to remove it

Google has an incentive to make everything work through the web. Safari has the incentive to gatekeep the app store revenue, which is why PWAs are a joke on iOS. Google also has bad incentives (Android, ads) but Safari is the IE6 of modern web.

Are PWA’s better and more popular on Android?

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#219
post #171
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari has a minuscule team and brings in the Google money

I think it's a bit misleading to call Safari a "high margin product" based on that logic, considering they could have made even more profit by not making it at all and just charge Google the exact same money to let them ship Chrome as the default iOS browser... (I mean an actual Chrome browser, not the Chrome skin of a WebKit browser that Google currently has to settle for.) I'm not saying I'd prefer that scenario, j…

That scenario seems just completely illegal under the regulations that are being discussed

Re: Apple's Browser Engine Ban Persists, Even Under the DMA

#220
post #219
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's a bit misleading to call Safari a "high margin product" based on that logic, considering they could have made even more profit by not making it at all and just charge Google the exact same money to let them ship Chrome as the default iOS browser... (I mean an actual Chrome browser, not the Chrome skin of a WebKit browser that Google currently has to settle for.) I'm not saying I'd prefer that scenario, j…

That scenario seems just completely illegal under the regulations that are being discussed

I'm talking about historic choices rather than current options - but yes I agree that even if they wanted to, they'd face legal trouble if they tried now to replace Safari with an exclusive deal for Chrome to be the only browser.
Post reply on HN