IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites • Hacker News Board

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#211

Post by cropcirclbureau » Sat, Jun 28, 2025, 1:02 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #190

alluro2 wrote: post #177

I visited Israel for a sports seminar some ~10 years ago and met many nice people. I felt sympathetic to their reality of living in an ever-hostile environment from all sides, and struggle to keep their place in the world safe. I admired their resilience and strength. When this Gaza conflict started, I saw how the Israeli protested against their government and demanded peace, so I thought there is a semblance of an e…

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood exper…

Israel and people of Jewish heritage has a lot of soft-power in the west. And the anti-terrorism rhetoric that Israeli's using to sell this has has previously been deployed by the west to cover up it's own crimes.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#212

Post by lottin » Sat, Jun 28, 2025, 1:03 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #190

alluro2 wrote: post #177

I visited Israel for a sports seminar some ~10 years ago and met many nice people. I felt sympathetic to their reality of living in an ever-hostile environment from all sides, and struggle to keep their place in the world safe. I admired their resilience and strength. When this Gaza conflict started, I saw how the Israeli protested against their government and demanded peace, so I thought there is a semblance of an e…

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood exper…

What does it even mean 'to want nothing more than to end the conflict'? As far as I can tell it doesn't mean anything. Everybody wants the conflict to end, including the Israelis and the Palestinians. They just want it to end differently, of course.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#213

Post by awkwardpotato » Sat, Jun 28, 2025, 1:04 PM UTC

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #202

xg15 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood exper…

I dont disagree with anything you said, but isn't that the role of elected leaders ? Actually making the difficult decisions that may be unpopular, but necessary ? Or is it the leader class in most western countries have no sense of duty , are effectively cowards, and are in it just to have a profitable, white-collar career ?

> Actually making the difficult decisions that may be unpopular, but necessary ?

What is the unpopular, necessary decision? GP is commenting on the US/EUs continual campaigns to arm and fund Israel's efforts in Gaza without pushback. I don't wish to misinterpret you, but this read to me, that funding/aiding human rights violations and genocide in Gaza is a "necessary" act.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#214

Post by edanm » Sat, Jun 28, 2025, 1:04 PM UTC

edanm wrote: post #175

throw9032093 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea Israeli government would hold anyone accountable is a laughable. Israel got in trouble with ICJ court, because of quotes from top government officials. Government of Israel was very specific what they will do to Gaza! This was even full scale bombing started! Trying to reinterpret this as a problem of "military discipline", and "soldiers are victim as well" is just another level of cynicism!

> The idea Israeli government would hold anyone accountable is a laughable. It's happened, many times. Usually this doesn't make front-page news, but soldiers that break the law are sometimes held accountable. Not nearly enough, and I think it should be far more publicized as a deterrent effect (the fact that it isn't is a pretty big indictment of the current government). But it's certainly not laughable.

Btw, the literal sub-headline of the article includes this sentence:

"prompting the military prosecution to call for a review into possible war crimes".

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#215

Post by alkhatib » Sat, Jun 28, 2025, 1:06 PM UTC

xg15 wrote: post #178

> He also said the activity in his area of service is referred to as Operation Salted Fish – the name of the Israeli version of the children's game "Red light, green light". The Israeli tradition of giving their Gaza operations names of children's games also continues, after "Operation Cast Lead". (Not sure if they wanted to make a reference to Squid Games as well...)

Green light : They send out notifications to people telling them aid is available at a certain location.

Red light: 10 minutes later they send out another notification saying no aid is being distributed there today and start shooting anyone in the area

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#216

Post by LudwigNagasena » Sat, Jun 28, 2025, 1:07 PM UTC

nelox wrote: post #201

regularization wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do prefer drug dealers over Hamas islamists Netanyahu prefers Hamas, he was propping them up prior to the current battles, according to the New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-q... Also, if, as in the recent New York City mayoral debate, US politicians are supposed to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, which it recognizes itself as, then I don't see the big deal over Palesti…

Ironically, the closest you will get to something approaching that type of Marxist-Leninist utopia in the Middle East, is living in an Israeli kibbutz near the border with Gaza.

Why is a civic state in the Middle East is utopia? Do you think that the US not based on white nationalism is also a Marxist-Leninist utopia?

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#217

Post by dmix » Sat, Jun 28, 2025, 1:07 PM UTC

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #202

xg15 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood exper…

I dont disagree with anything you said, but isn't that the role of elected leaders ? Actually making the difficult decisions that may be unpopular, but necessary ? Or is it the leader class in most western countries have no sense of duty , are effectively cowards, and are in it just to have a profitable, white-collar career ?

It's a bunch of >60yr old western leaders who had 40yrs of seeing violence and terrorism in Israel and Palestine, and every couple years a naive western leader announces they want to fix it, while nothing changes.

People are just numb to the whole area.

The most difficult part is the fact Israel is wealthy and aggressive while (both) Palestine government has been the definition of dysfunction and tribalism for decades, even during peace times. Diplomatic solutions have became harder and harder since the 90s.

You can read the history the political bodies in West Bank and even they seem to not care to fix anything either. They have their own leadership issues (like never electing new leaders).

There’s a major gap between a western savior wanting something bad to stop and actually going there and accomplishing something.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#218

Post by the__alchemist » Sat, Jun 28, 2025, 1:08 PM UTC

Some context first so my opinion isn't misconstrued as as leftist stereotype. This is within context of the behavior described in the article.

  - I'm a Jew in USA, and served in the military for more than a decade.
  - I used to get annoyed by the Palestinian protests I'd see in the years before this, and generally sided with Israel, and the operations its military performed in counter-Shia-militia operations etc in the region, and was outraged at the Oct 7 attacks.

Israel's operations as described in the article are clear-cut war crimes. The military and civilian leaders responsible for these ROE should face something similar to the Nuremberg trials. I am embarrassed for my country's support of Israel's operations.

This is large-scale, continued, intentional CIVCAS.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#219

Post by xg15 » Sat, Jun 28, 2025, 1:10 PM UTC

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #202

xg15 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood exper…

I dont disagree with anything you said, but isn't that the role of elected leaders ? Actually making the difficult decisions that may be unpopular, but necessary ? Or is it the leader class in most western countries have no sense of duty , are effectively cowards, and are in it just to have a profitable, white-collar career ?

That's a good question. I know, in Germany, saying - let alone doing - anything critical of Israel as a public figure has effectively been a taboo. The justification had always been the Holocaust and the perpetual guilt of Germany towards the Jewish people arising from it.

For a long time, that made some sense - it's starting to shift into quite horrific territory though, if leaders and communities interpret this obligation as some sort of absolute fealty towards the Israeli government, at the exclusion of everything else - even if that government itself is repeating the path of Nazi Germany. Yet this seems to be how a lot of German politicians interpret it.

I found the distinction exemplified in the "Never again" vs "Never again for anyone" slogans.

I don't understand what exactly is going on in the US, but there seems to have been a similar taboo, though maybe stemming from different sources (like that Evangelical end-of-days prophecy that sees Israel literally as part of a divine plan that trumps everything else).

I find it notable that part of Trump's voter support in the election were actually pro-Palestinian groups - because they saw Trump as the only alternative to a complicit Harris administration. Of course, Trump turned out to be even more complicit and openly embracing the Evangelical narrative.

So as far as US voters were concerned, there was no pro-Palestinian or even neutral options to vote for. There was just secular pro-Israel and religious pro-Israel. (Well, there was also Jill Stein, but she had no realistic chance of winning)

Of course there are other voices saying that all those justifications - Holocaust, biblical prophecy, etc - are just show and the real reason for the unconditional support is just ordinary geopolitics. The image of Israel as the "unsinkable aircraft carrier" that guarantees US dominance in the region.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#220

Post by jcranmer » Sat, Jun 28, 2025, 1:13 PM UTC

dilawar wrote: post #91

The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must. -- Thucydidus

Spoken by the Athenians and resulting in a war that, as Thucydides's audience knew quite well, Athens lost big-time.

Which actually holds up quite well for everybody who loves to bring up that quote: realism aka "we shouldn't face the consequences of our actions" is the obvious rallying cry for people facing the consequences of their actions.