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U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

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Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#211

Post by kurikuri »

rectang wrote: post #157
kurikuri wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuance is not always a good thing. This type of nuance doesn’t forward the discussion in any way and, in this case, muddies the waters and leads to some odd implications. Sure, we can say there is no objective source of truth and chastise the author for using that word, but the term objective in this case has meaning that the author is trying to articulate… most likely that there is some overtly unbiased information…

> Sure, we can say there is no objective source of truth and chastise the author for using that word I regret my imprecise use of language which has taken us down this tiresome metaphysical subthread. I should have merely emphasized that the CSB presents an alternative point of view to that of the company. It was not essential to my point that the CSB be unassailable.

Ah, I was being a bit sarcastic in my response to monkeyelite, I believe I understood what you wrote and was trying to get at the vacuity of their response to you.

I derailed this conversation to make a meta point, and it wasn’t your fault at all.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#212

Post by ordu »

monkeyelite wrote: post #153
ordu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes I don’t believe in unbiased sources. I believe in multiple perspectives revealing aspects of the truth. It is just metaphysics. I like it also, but it is impractical. I find it useful to train my mind to see things from different angles, but it is useless to talk about concrete things. Can you find examples of a biased reports on CSB's youtube channel? If not, it is a good example of uselessness of metaphysics.…

> It is just metaphysics I would call it having a baseline understanding of organizations and media. > Can you find examples of a biased reports on CSB's youtube channel? Yes? Can you not? The top video in this thread, “safety pays off“ highlights their successes and does not discuss their failures or costs. So yes that video was designed to make their organization appear in the best light possible.

> The top video in this thread, “safety pays off“ highlights their successes and does not discuss their failures or costs. So yes that video was designed to make their organization appear in the best light possible.

Oh, yes, you are right, it is a bias. But this bias tells us nothing about objectivity of CSB investigations and recommendations. It tells us nothing about the objectivity you had objected to.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#213

Post by FirmwareBurner »

diggan wrote: post #187
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what's stopping the American people from voting smart people with engineering degrees to power instead of lying loud mouth conmen? Maybe because modern American mainstream culture has people worshiping the "clever" conman who got rich quick by gaming the system and scamming others, as opposed to hard working nerd who put in the long time and effort for an honest enrichment. Democratic societies get the leaders th…

> Democratic societies get the leaders they deserve as they are a mirror of the people themselves. Don't confuse things being soiled by capitalism as democracy somehow is the bad part. There are plenty of examples of democracies that haven't succumbed to capitalism as badly as the US has.

Which are those? Other than Nordic EU countries, most other capitalist countries on the planet are doing worse than the US when you look at stuff like youth unemployment, housing affordability or birth rates, all things that show economic outlook.

Capitalism is bad sure, but so far it's the least bad system we ever had and the US is one of the least bad implementations. Capitalism got a lot of countries out of extreme poverty.

Look at South Korea if you want to see true dystopian capitalism.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#214

Post by caseysoftware »

KindOne wrote: post #158
caseysoftware wrote: post #133

Admittedly, I'd never heard of the CSB until this article but their mission - from their "About Us" page - seems important: "The CSB is an independent federal agency charged with investigating chemical incidents to determine the cause or probable cause." Out of curiosity, I looked up the East Palestine, Ohio train derailment in 2023 and can't find their investigation on their site in either the active or completed in…

Train Derailment is for FRA / NTSB. CSB is for manufacturing / processing incidents.

Got it. Found the EPA reporting on the trail derailment too.

It looks like the distinction is whether the potential source is stationary or not.

Which reinforces the "duplication" point. Remove the distinction for the EPA and you have the need covered.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#215

Post by andrewflnr »

throw0101c wrote: post #199
andrewflnr wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They just put out an ad for themselves: https://youtu.be/2z7h5BOZ2Hk?si=n539-vOz-NhtDncT Pretty good value proposition.

> ?si=n539-vOz-NhtDncT Meta: the si parameter is a form of tracking, as is pp . Considering trimming them from any copy-paste if you can.

Woops, fair point. Here's the trimmed version: https://youtu.be/2z7h5BOZ2Hk

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#216

Post by doka_smoka »

I would leave the funding as long as they make MORE videos than one a year. With all the AI tools coming out they should be able to produce much fantastic content. I can't count the number of times I've referred our site EHS managers throughout the years to their Youtube.

Or, I guess, cut the funding, and next Dupont or Deridder or Bhopal, we will just shrug and hope the company responsible for the incident is transparent and forthcoming in their internal investigation /s

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#217

Post by Rebelgecko »

almosthere wrote: post #87
Rebelgecko wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they want to fund a group that calls them out for taking deadly shortcuts to save money?

That's how the FDA works, so, should we just shut them down?

If it was up to drug companies, I'm guessing they would be supportive.

If if by "we" you mean me personally, I think it's a bad idea.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#218

Post by singleshot_ »

throw0101c wrote: post #204
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what's stopping the American people from voting smart people with engineering degrees to power instead of lying loud mouth conmen? Maybe because modern American mainstream culture has people worshiping the "clever" conman who got rich quick by gaming the system and scamming others, as opposed to hard working nerd who put in the long time and effort for an honest enrichment. Democratic societies get the leaders th…

> And what's stopping the American people from voting smart people with engineering degrees to power instead of lying loud mouth conmen? The fact that people vote at all. Running for office is a risky endeavour: you have to take time off from your job to actually run, with a decent chance of not winning. How many employers would be willing to give you a leave of absence to do this? Further, if you happen to lose your…

> Law is probably one field where one can hop in and out easily

This is one factor that explains why lawyers take so many vacations and seem so generally relaxed.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#219

Post by hilbert42 »

boringg wrote: post #190
immibis wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes, pretty much. It's an observed pattern among authoritarian states that actual facts are frequently in opposition to the authority, therefore, actual facts must be eliminated. It's a silver lining in disguise, really. Such countries tend to collapse relatively quickly because it turns out facts are important for running a country - look at the USSR's fake food supply. Relatively quickly could still be a deca…

Some do many don’t collapse. How long were Mao, Saddam, Stalin in power? Could pull a longer list…

I should have been more specific but I thought it obvious. I was referring to China nowadays, specifically the time since Mao Zedong's death in 1976 and Deng Xiaoping's economic reforms which he instigated shorthly thereafter.

I suggest you read this link about Chinese leaders/leadership, especially the section headed Change from Charismatic Revolutionaries to Technocrats especially paragraph/bullet points four and five:

https://factsanddetails.com/china/cat8/4sub1/item2247.html

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#220

Post by hilbert42 »

hilbert42 wrote: post #179
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has been the exception that authoritarian states collapse quickly. It's what the western powers were banking on would happen after they had success with USSR. It didn't pan out the way they thought. Not even close.

"China has been the exception that authoritarian states collapse quickly." Why? Because if you check the CVs of most of Politburo members they have degrees in science and engineering. QED!

As I replied to boringg, I should have been more specific. I was referring to China nowadays—since Mao's death and Deng Xiaoping's economic reforms.

See section Change from Charismatic Revolutionaries to Technocrats especially bullet points four and five in this link on Chinese leadership: https://factsanddetails.com/china/cat8/4sub1/item2247.html.

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