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Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

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Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#211

Post by londons_explore »

Loughla wrote: post #197
londons_explore wrote: post #190

Why would any country store it's own gold outside its own borders? For any nation state, storage and security costs will be tiny compared to geopolitical risk and leverage they're giving away by storing it abroad.

Store it somewhere safe and stable, that way if you're invaded the government in exile can still access the country's wealth to fund resistance and what-not, or at least keep the invaders from just taking it. Source: all that stolen wealth in WW2.

But it also means that if there is a regime change, the new government will have no money to run the nation, and will have to seriously harm the quality of life of the inhabitants to re-earn those savings through taxation.

It really seems like one option here is best for maintaining the status quo with the existing government, whilst the other is best for the people of the nation.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#212

Post by andy_ppp »

orbital-decay wrote: post #77
andy_ppp wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People struggle with uncertainty so much that any magical thinking they can come up with will do… we simply don’t know the truth on this at all.

Only those who don't want to see certain things and mirror the Russian propaganda line ("we will never know the truth"). This case is pretty thoroughly investigated, down to the names, timelines, and interviews with people who did this.

Okay, you’re making some claims here, I’m not saying you’re wrong but could you provide some high quality references that contain proof of this?

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#213

Post by slightwinder »

Aldipower wrote: post #146
SuperShibe wrote: post #87

The Germans in this article all appear to be aligned to either BSW (populist far-left, pro-Russia, anti-US) or AfD (populist far-right, pro-Russia). BSW wasn't even elected into the parliament and AfD, while being part of the parliament, has virtually no power due to not being part of the government coalition and all other parties sharing an informal agreement to not pass legislations with the help of AfD. What I'm t…

As it is correct, that they are virtually not in power, framing them as pro-russia is some sort of false flag. Just because they are not anti-russia, like every other party, does not automatically mean that they are pro-russia. AfD and BSW together got more then 25% of all votes. So, you are correct, they virtually are not in power, but they have some real power just by being there. This HN post here is the best exam…

They are openly supporting Russia, take their money, visit them while meeting high ranking Russian assets and are spreading the same Ideas. There is no framing here.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#214

Post by wuschel »

razemio wrote: post #165
Aldipower wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it is correct, that they are virtually not in power, framing them as pro-russia is some sort of false flag. Just because they are not anti-russia, like every other party, does not automatically mean that they are pro-russia. AfD and BSW together got more then 25% of all votes. So, you are correct, they virtually are not in power, but they have some real power just by being there. This HN post here is the best exam…

I think anti-nato, anti eu, pro russian gas and anti urkraine war aid qualify as pro russian. I get your point, but I think you are wrong? Just read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AfD_pro-Russia_movement AfD has SO many connections to the Kremel. At least a big part of AfD is obiously influenced by russian agenda. BSW is a different topic. They might just align with many points russia likes, but you can not be s…

I concur.

The AfD, the SPD and the BSW all have factions that historical ties to the Kreml network

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#215

Post by twixfel »

resource_waste wrote: post #158
Havoc wrote: post #136

Honestly at this stage all countries should pull their gold. The system was somewhat reasonable when the US acted more or less benevolent, but clearly when we're in a space where the US threatens to invade allies then they clearly are no longer trustworthy

As someone deep into International Relations, I always find it a bit interesting to hear when someone says 'X nation is untrustworthy'. I mostly find it interesting because it means some event disrupted norms to a level that The Commons is aware. Everyone in IR knows trust/morals is not something to put weight into, but 'normies' are always surprised whenever there is a chance in IR that contradicts international law…

If you didn't trust someone, you wouldn't give them all your gold to look after. That's called trust. You can dress it up in terms of realism or whatever, but it's trusting to do it nevertheless.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#216

Post by greenavocado »

infecto wrote: post #176
bboygravity wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's all fine and dandy, but also IMO it's entirely possible that the US cannot deliver their gold if these countries (and/or others) wanted it back. Just look at what happened when Venezuela wanted their gold back. It took ages and that was a relatively tiny amount. It's extremely naive for many EU countries to still believe that they "have" "their" gold stored in the US. And even more naive to not try and get it…

It’s extremely naive to think the Federal Reserve has lent out the gold and it no longer exists. It’s up there with insider job 9/11 conspiracies. Modern banking and finance, not just in the US, relies on fractional reserves. This is not a movie.

[flagged]

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#217

Post by patrickk »

myrmidon wrote: post #134
patrickk wrote: post #93

> A secret report by Germany’s Federal Audit Office leaked to the public last week states that the Federal Reserve Bank of New York refuses to allow Bundebank staff to even view the gold, triggering suspicions that the vaults are empty as well as calls for the gold to be shipped back to Berlin. > The Fed implements stringent security controls, and refuses even Bundesbank staff full access to the German gold hoard. A…

Note that Germany already finished bringing back 300 tons of gold from NYC and about the same amount from Paris in 2016, so this is a bit out of date (that whole transfer was completed ahead of schedule, which indicates, in hindsight, that probably not all the German gold in NYC was missing completely in 2011 :P).

Yes indeed, this article is outdated. But I posted it to counter the other comments here which are trying to draw links to Trump bring the reason that the Bundesbank don’t believe the US Fed. In fact, some in Germany have long mistrusted the Fed’s word on how much German gold is still actually in the vaults.

Here is a very fun, deeply speculative article from Zerohedge on this topic, from 2013:

https://archive.is/dVIK3

> That's right, ladies and gentlemen, as a result of our cursory examination, we have learned that the world's largest private, and commercial, gold vault, that belonging once upon a time to Chase Manhattan, and now to JPMorgan Chase, is located, right across the street, and at the same level underground, resting just on top of the Manhattan bedrock, as the vault belonging to the New York Federal Reserve, which according to folklore is the official location of the biggest collection of sovereign, public gold in the world.

> At this point we would hate to be self-referential, and point out what one of our own commentators noted on the topic of the Fed's vault a year ago, namely that:

> Chase Plaza (now the Property of JPM) is linked to the facility via tunnel... I have seen it. The elevators on the Chase side are incredible. They could lift a tank.

> ... but we won't, and instead we will let readers make up their own mind why the the thousands of tons of sovereign gold in the possession of the New York Fed, have to be literally inches across, if not directly connected, to the largest private gold vault in the world.

Edit: more details about the underground vaults- https://www.bullionstar.com/blogs/ronan-manly/keys-gold-vaul...

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#218

Post by delfinom »

_lvbh wrote: post #2

https://archive.is/20250623093918/https://www.ft.com/content... I have doubts the current US administration would let them without some sort of retaliation (e.g. more tariffs)

Gonna be real rough when every country stops buying US debt.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#219

Post by Aldipower »

Eupolemos wrote: post #200
Aldipower wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Straw man argument. Neither Russia wants to invade Germany nor is Ukraine our neighbor (and if it is, then is Russia too). Despite that is the US the most armed country in the world, not Russia. I fear the things are much much more complicated then you think.

No, you are simply gaslighting and being called out.

Where do I gaslighting? Give me an example from this thread please. Don't feed the AI with straw man ad hominem, thx.

Re: Germany and Italy pressed to bring $245B of gold home from US

#220

Post by af78 »

tehjoker wrote: post #202
Eupolemos wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When another nation wants to subjugate or invade you and/or your neighbors, not being against is being pro them. Being against military expenditures and alliances when the other nation is arming like there is no tomorrow is being pro getting invaded. It is not complicated.

Not at all. It’s a US Russia proxy war. Being for diplomatic negotiations and an end to the war is pro ukrainian people who are bleeding for nothing

Not at all. The US has tried to minimize its involvement in this war before it even started. In the run-up to the full-scale invasion, Biden spent more time saying what he would not do than what he would do. Think that, to this date, the US has not supplied a single fighter jet. The only airframes Ukraine received were provided by European nations. About 30 Abrams tanks were delivered by the US, and that only after it was clear Ukraine's 2023 counter offensive had failed. Since Trump's return to power, not a single aid package has been approved. To the contrary, the Trump administration has sided with Russia and North Korea on UN General Assembly votes about Ukraine.

Remember that in the 1990's the US put Ukraine under pressure to give up its nuclear arsenal (2nd in the world at the time) against promises that its sovereignty and independence would be respected (Budapest memorandums). Who is going to believe the US now?

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