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AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

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Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#211

Post by xquce »

oceanplexian wrote: post #194
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Designing "ChatGPT-proof assignments" feels to me like a similar level of intellectual challenge. Designing a "mostly ChatGPT-proof class" is in my opinion actually rather simple: just be inspired by the German university system: Each week you have to complete exercise sheets which are often hard. But being capable of solving a certain quota of the exercises is just the beginning: this only qualifies you for being…

> I didn't mention yet that if you flunked the same exam typically 3 times (depending on the university), you have "finally failed" (endgültig nicht bestanden), and are not allowed anymore to study the same degree course at every German university. When Europeans wonder why they are falling behind the United States both economically and technologically (Especially in the AI race), here's a perfect example of why. A c…

And when Muricans wonder why the rest of the world laughs at your simplestic greed based view of "winning", this comment is a perfect example of why.

What a weird way to try and connect inter continental economics and private company valuation as a sole metric for success or achievement with test taking at a university level in Germany...

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#212

Post by pjc50 »

lapcat wrote: post #201
pjc50 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can we make a place for the social ladder climber that's separate from a place where real learning happens, where nobody is tempted to cheat because there's nothing to be gained from cheating? I don't think so. Let me suggest a set of hypotheses: - the social ladder always exists; it's basically fundamental to human existence, especially when trying to do anything (see tyranny of structurelessness) - people are alw…

It's unclear why you think the educational system needs to be part of the social ladder. I'm imagining for example that all citizens are required to receive an education, and demonstrate the same level of mastery in the subjects taught as everyone else, without grades or rankings. You might call it "pass-fail", but I resist that idea, because I don't consider failure to be an option, except in rare cases of learning…

> why you think the educational system needs to be part of the social ladder.

Depends if you want the people running the country to be competent or not.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#213

Post by aleph_minus_one »

tstenner wrote: post #206
oceanplexian wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I didn't mention yet that if you flunked the same exam typically 3 times (depending on the university), you have "finally failed" (endgültig nicht bestanden), and are not allowed anymore to study the same degree course at every German university. When Europeans wonder why they are falling behind the United States both economically and technologically (Especially in the AI race), here's a perfect example of why. A c…

Of course, the next European neighbor country where you can continue your studies (even taking most of your credits with you) is often only a few hundred kilometres away.

If you really think that a university degree course is still the right thing for you, you typically just choose another "related, but different" degree course at some university in the same country.

Concerning "next European country", on the other hand, keep in mind that in this country often a different language is spoken; in particular for your daily life, you cannot assume that everybody understands English or even your native language.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#214

Post by eyesofgod »

gdubs wrote: post #141

There's a deeper educational problem that's been decades in the making which is that students are trained to see school and work as a series of never ending goals to achieve. The ultimate one is to 'get a job'. Well, now nobody can really even say what jobs will be available in 5 to 10 years with high confidence. Except maybe the trades – and we mostly cut those programs out of schools a long time ago. If college stu…

> I don't see how we can blame them rather than ourselves for the educational and career system we've created

I dont know man, you do it every time.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#215

Post by bongodongobob »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #157
mtillman wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m convinced plumbing would pay better than programming in certain neighborhoods right now now.

Plumbers never realized that they should be selling service plans and leasing toilets to people. Software's golden goose is not letting people own things.

Service for what? I'm in my 40s and now that I think about it, I've never had to call a plumber in my entire life. The only time I can think of is my parents calling one when they got a new dishwasher 25 years ago.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#216

Post by eyesofgod »

tsunamifury wrote: post #150
gdubs wrote: post #141

There's a deeper educational problem that's been decades in the making which is that students are trained to see school and work as a series of never ending goals to achieve. The ultimate one is to 'get a job'. Well, now nobody can really even say what jobs will be available in 5 to 10 years with high confidence. Except maybe the trades – and we mostly cut those programs out of schools a long time ago. If college stu…

Trades would collapse if even 10% of the population switched to them. What does no one get about this?

> What does no one get about this?

Its all idiotic romanticisation. Thats why all the out-of-their-ass anecdotes involve someone who's more of an entrepreneur than a tradesmen as well.

Theres some bizzare analog of the noble savage myth, but applied to blue collar work.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#217

Post by the-mitr »

guappa wrote: post #181
tsunamifury wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trades would collapse if even 10% of the population switched to them. What does no one get about this?

Well in sweden it's forbidden to fix anything electrical on your own. You're allowed to change your lamps and little else.

Is it so? Is it true for other work also? Genuinely asking.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#218

Post by s1artibartfast »

throwawaybob420 wrote: post #190
stanford_labrat wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like AI seems like it's being used as a convenient scapegoat for the layoffs and trimming following the end of ZIRP, now we see it also being used to blame for the failures of our modern education system. Mostly which are that our system only rewards one thing in education: the grade. Not understanding, knowledge, intelligence, but instead a single number that is more easily gamified than anything. And this sing…

Our modern education system in the US is broken, but acting as if AI is a scapegoat is comical. Capitalism is what has destroyed higher education in this country. The concept of going to school to get a job isn’t a failure of education but of economics. AI is just another capitalist tool made to not only extract wealth out of you but something that they want you to rely on more and more so they can charge you even mo…

There is nothing wrong with going to school to obtain knowledge and skills to secure a job.

The problem with the modern educational system is that it isnt very efficient at this task. Instead, most of the value relies on the screening that took place before the students even entered the institution, not the knowledge obtained while there.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#219

Post by thomastjeffery »

gdubs wrote: post #141

There's a deeper educational problem that's been decades in the making which is that students are trained to see school and work as a series of never ending goals to achieve. The ultimate one is to 'get a job'. Well, now nobody can really even say what jobs will be available in 5 to 10 years with high confidence. Except maybe the trades – and we mostly cut those programs out of schools a long time ago. If college stu…

This is rooted in the idea that a person should need permission to work. The reason we do this is because our capitalist society is structured around competition instead of collaboration. Because all work must be framed as a competition, the only way collaboration is allowed is by explicitly joining a team.

This rule is made explicit with copyright: derivative work is, by default, illegal. The only way that derivative work is allowed to be made is after making a contract with the rightsholder.

This system can only be enforced with incompatibility. You can't actually stop someone from making derivative work unless your help is actually required. The most familiar instance of this requirement is software: it's simply not pragmatic for someone to extend your code, when they only have access to a compiled binary. Software work can only be extended from a shared context: what you write must be compatible with what is written. That's generally unfeasible when what is written is a compile-time optimized binary executable.

Incompatibility is not a perfect barrier. It's possible to decompile software. It's possible to edit text, images, video, audio, etc. Copyright depends on incompatibility, and LLMs are simply the newest, most compelling way to call that bluff.

Re: AI makes the humanities more important, but also weirder

#220

Post by eyesofgod »

fallingknife wrote: post #203
UncleMeat wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am friends with an unusually large number of professors, many of which are at very top institutions. The "make your own pedagogy" approach for students leaves huge portions of the classroom doing zero work whatsoever.

What was the point of having those students in the classroom in the first place?

Taking their (or their parent's) money of course
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