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Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

aruarian.dance

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Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#211

Post by Marsymars »

kaladin-jasnah wrote: post #157
starttoaster wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA has Visa, Mastercard, Discover, and AmEx. Each of which try to entice their customers by offering better rewards programs. Though AmEx isn't taken everywhere (notably Costco) and Discover is hit and miss as well.

It's funny, because the Costco credit card used to be AmEx. IIRC Costco Canada only takes Mastercard, which is funny since the US Costco credit card is Visa, so you can't use the US Costco CC to pay in a Canadian Costco.

You actually can use the Costco US Visa at Canadian Costco, they’ve got a special exemption for it. (And vice-versa, you can use the Canadian Costco Mastercard at American Costco.)

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#212

Post by Marsymars »

kirici wrote: post #148

I've recently returned from a trip across the country and liked everything about my (physical) ICOCA card, except that the machines used to charge it, at least the ones I've found, only accepted cash. After charging it once with a decent balance though, I got away (almost) entirely without cash using it in combination with a virtual credit card via NFC, save for street food carts and Gachapon machines.

I did think it was kind of funny when I’d use a single machine to withdraw cash from my bank account and then deposit the cash right back in to load it onto my IC card.

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#213

Post by xuki »

hocuspocus wrote: post #135
delfinom wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that is correct. Patents hold it back on Android. Apple just got themselves a licensing deal that apparently lets them just have it on all phones.

Note that on global Pixels it isn't hard to enable, either via root or flashing Japanese variants of the factory images.

This is such a Hacker News comment.

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#215

Post by astrange »

isatty wrote: post #207
astrange wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese transit-using society is old and middle-class; those are the kind of people who follow rules. Americans are often more rule bound than Japanese people (we have HOAs and Nextdoor), but we just don't respect transit systems as much because we think of them as gifts we give to the poor/mentally ill/homeless. And then a lot of Americans have an anti-gentrification ideology ("rent-lowering gunshots" or "neighborh…

Japanese transit using society is not all old and middle class: it’s pretty much everyone who is not filthy rich isn’t it?

Old meaning not young. Pretty much all crimes or any other forms of messy behavior worldwide are committed by young men.

But the median age in NYC is 38 and Tokyo is 45. (source: two Google searches I just did). That means a lot!

It's true they don't jump the gates often and they don't have loud panhandlers. Instead the societal transit ills are passed out drunks, suicides and molesters. (Not meaning these actually happen all the time, it's just my impression of what people talk about.)

> it’s pretty much everyone who is not filthy rich isn’t it?

Hmm, it's more about what you're doing, I think? Rich people use transit all the time if it serves their purposes afaik. One thing that helps in Japan is the culture of wearing face masks means you won't be recognized in public. (Obviously this doesn't work if you're like a 7' NBA player.)

For going between cities the trains are actually the nice expensive option, and flying or taking a night bus is cheaper.

But trains are also basically only good at carrying yourself. If you're traveling in a group, or carrying equipment with you, or don't want to walk a lot then you'd still want to drive or take a taxi locally.

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#216

Post by kanbankaren »

mlinhares wrote: post #208
astrange wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japanese transit-using society is old and middle-class; those are the kind of people who follow rules. Americans are often more rule bound than Japanese people (we have HOAs and Nextdoor), but we just don't respect transit systems as much because we think of them as gifts we give to the poor/mentally ill/homeless. And then a lot of Americans have an anti-gentrification ideology ("rent-lowering gunshots" or "neighborh…

I had never noticed it like that but now I’m dead. When I moved to my current neighborhood I asked why there was no public transportation and someone said it was so poor people couldn’t be around and I hadn’t connected this to the wider culture.

> current neighborhood

Context please? Which country and city?

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#217

Post by m-schuetz »

movedx wrote: post #200
lorenzotenti wrote: post #160

What really stands out is the difference in design philosophy. In London, the gates are normally closed and only open if your Oyster card is valid. In Tokyo, the gates are open by default and only close if your card fails. You don’t have to wait for doors to open and close every time—it just keeps the flow moving and feels way faster.

You raise a good point here. There's a degree of trust here, too. Trust placed on the consumer to do the right thing and pay. I'd also say there's an additional consideration being put forward by the operator: sometimes people just need a ride every now and then. I've been Japan three times now and I've seen several incidents of the guards letting people just walk through without a ticket because they explained some…

I've went through gates without ticket several times for reasons like access to coin lockers or switching to the other track when I've entered the wrong one. Gate guards usually hand you a slip that explains the situation at the other gate or when leaving again.

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#218

Post by astrange »

perching_aix wrote: post #201
astrange wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When people discuss Japan being a homogeneous society, that typically refers to it being a very ethnically uniform society. Even if you ignore tourists that's not really true of Tokyo either. Japan doesn't collect ethnicity statistics though - the numbers for this you may have seen are misreadings of something else. > Surely you're not trying to claim that what people actually mean typically is that Japan is homoge…

> Even if you ignore tourists that's not really true of Tokyo either. Japan doesn't collect ethnicity statistics though - the numbers for this you may have seen are misreadings of something else. Which is all very interesting, but remind me, how does this tie into payment systems again? > That's absolutely what people online think about Japan, they think it's a stuffy collectivist society where everyone agrees with e…

I would say that the common image of Japan is that it's a weird place that only works because it's full of Japanese people.

Whereas I would like to promote the idea that it's a normal place containing normal people (…many of them Chinese tourists, lately), and you can have the good things they have too if you simply copy their policies. Or in other words, there's no need for conflict.

I don't know if payment systems are one of those anymore though. FeliCa is the best because it's so fast, but any kind of tap to pay is IME fine. Certainly better than having to use a ticket machine or buy a special card or work out change to give to the bus driver.

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#219

Post by presentation »

kanbankaren wrote: post #216
mlinhares wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had never noticed it like that but now I’m dead. When I moved to my current neighborhood I asked why there was no public transportation and someone said it was so poor people couldn’t be around and I hadn’t connected this to the wider culture.

> current neighborhood Context please? Which country and city?

I assume US, city doesn’t matter since this is the default opinion for most NIMBY suburban Americans in all US cities.

Re: Japan's IC cards are weird and wonderful

#220

Post by mlinhares »

kanbankaren wrote: post #216
mlinhares wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had never noticed it like that but now I’m dead. When I moved to my current neighborhood I asked why there was no public transportation and someone said it was so poor people couldn’t be around and I hadn’t connected this to the wider culture.

> current neighborhood Context please? Which country and city?

A suburb in southern winter garden, FL.
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