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Mississippi Can't Possibly Have Good Schools

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211–220 of 230 posts

Re: Mississippi Can't Possibly Have Good Schools

#211
> Underperforming states escape scrutiny. Our biases prevent us from asking, for instance, what’s going on in Oregon. Or Vermont. Or Maryland.

Uh, is this true ?

I feel like there's been plenty of asking as to why Oregon schools are as bad as they are. Going back 10 years. Hell, maybe 30+ years. It's not a secret. I've never felt we-can't-talk-about-it, as the author claims.

I'm glad Mississippi is making progress, but a lot of the article reads like a straw man (or, weirdly, a reading comprehension test)

Re: Mississippi Can't Possibly Have Good Schools

#212
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s telling to me that like 2/3 of the replies to my comment think I’m arguing for extending inclusiveness to Nazis and KKK and such. That’s not what I said. I said rural Southern and Midwestern white working class culture. Many tend toward conservatism but the majority of them are not raging frothing at the mouth bigots. I was not talking about committed ideological hate mongers. I was talking about regular people…

I live in the south, for the record, and MAGA culture is prolific here. It’s not about conservatism, it’s about populism. This is the most successful cult we’ve seen in a long time. Their belief systems are predicated on allegiance to a living God, and their decisions are reactionary in nature. This is all underpinned with a populist “burn it all down” ideology, which sounds nice, but is inherently incompatible with…

What was it you said? "Zero-compromise and reactionary?"

I don't know, I suppose. You say you live in the South, and I only grew up there and then got the hell out. I believe I hear more of how folks in that culture speak with people they trust, but I admit you have a better view these days of what they show to those they don't.

Re: Mississippi Can't Possibly Have Good Schools

#213
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, this is a classic paradox of tolerance problem. If you extend diversity to include people who ideologically oppose diversity, then you're going to end up with more resistance and therefore less diversity. Yes, it would be cool if we could just include populist nationalists in our policy but the problem is that those ideologies are inherently zero-compromise and reactionary. So, what now?

It’s telling to me that like 2/3 of the replies to my comment think I’m arguing for extending inclusiveness to Nazis and KKK and such. That’s not what I said. I said rural Southern and Midwestern white working class culture. Many tend toward conservatism but the majority of them are not raging frothing at the mouth bigots. I was not talking about committed ideological hate mongers. I was talking about regular people…

You'll never meet a bigger hick or rube than that stupid asshole Curtis Yarvin, and these fucking chumps look up to him. Man can't wear a leather jacket or a pair of shoes, can't style himself or comport himself in any other manner than that of a surly teenager in his big brother's illfitting rocker drag, never uses one word where fifty will do because otherwise a toddler could see he's full of shit to the eyebrows, and to these total jackoffs he's as good as a real rock star. God damn, there really never was such a thing as a fascist who ever had an orgasm, hey?

Re: Mississippi Can't Possibly Have Good Schools

#214
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s telling to me that like 2/3 of the replies to my comment think I’m arguing for extending inclusiveness to Nazis and KKK and such. That’s not what I said. I said rural Southern and Midwestern white working class culture. Many tend toward conservatism but the majority of them are not raging frothing at the mouth bigots. I was not talking about committed ideological hate mongers. I was talking about regular people…

I live in the south, for the record, and MAGA culture is prolific here. It’s not about conservatism, it’s about populism. This is the most successful cult we’ve seen in a long time. Their belief systems are predicated on allegiance to a living God, and their decisions are reactionary in nature. This is all underpinned with a populist “burn it all down” ideology, which sounds nice, but is inherently incompatible with…

[dead]

Re: Mississippi Can't Possibly Have Good Schools

#215
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this, absolutely. when the person you're replying to asked "What's wrong with their being a tiny elite" they seem to be purposely ignoring the fact that what we're measuring is competence in basic skills. A school isn't supposed to take in 100 kids and turn out 99 droupouts and one nuclear physicist. A school is supposed to take in 100 kids and turn out 100 kids who can read, write, do math and understand how their s…

And if the kid can't do that at a 3rd grade level at the end of 3rd grade, isn't it much better to have them repeat 3rd grade than to push then into 4th grade and hope something changes?

probably not, it already didn't work once

Re: Mississippi Can't Possibly Have Good Schools

#216
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can tell you why with reasonable certainty. When my mom became a Maine teacher in 1990, the starting pay was $28k, for a part time position. By her first retirement in 2022, she was making $48k, for full time work, in a more expensive school district, with more responsibilities (including creating the entire lesson plan and running the department). What was inflation during that time frame? So basically, Maine can'…

I think you touched on a key component to this and I'm curious if you agree with me or not. The level of effort expended by teachers in instructing their class varies wildly from teacher to teacher. I'm sure everyone remembers their best teacher and their worst teacher, and the delta between those two is often staggering. Wouldn't schools be better off if we could easily get rid of those bad teachers? I would love to…

Ah yes the famous "If only unions didn't prevent administration from firing bad workers everything would be peachy" excuse.

1) Any union employee can still be terminated with minimal documentation demonstrating incompetency or any other issue. All you have to do to fire someone in a union is take notes that they failed in their job duties, email them about it, take notes that they didn't improve. Unions cannot prevent you from firing workers for cause. The vast majority of "benefits" teachers unions in the US provide is a phone number for a lawyer. If you can't convince a judge someone should have been fired, why are you paid anything at all?

2) The fact that the administration does not do the above is because there are zero teachers to replace them with, because nobody wants to be a teacher. They also don't do the above because they are woefully incompetent and utterly incapable of telling you which teachers are good teachers. Note that, no, students aren't good at telling you who are good teachers either. Administration and students alike often love teachers who are wildly incompetent and don't do their job, and just as often hate very competent teachers who aren't willing to jump when they say so.

3) The administration is incompetent and unable to fire teachers based on merit because they are politicians, not educators. They weren't hired for their competency as an educator, or skills as a manager, or experience dealing with children, but because they have enough clout in the small community to parlay that into a $250k a year job where he wastes taxpayer dollars on absurd projects. Property taxes are less than half one school district over, and their system isn't any more competent.

If an administrator is unwilling to do the paperwork necessary to do their job, like fire someone who has union backing, means they should not be in administration, a job defined by paperwork. They get paid that insane sum of money to administrate a school district that has 500 kids in 3 schools which already all have their own administration staff. Meanwhile, they utterly refuse to support teachers trying to keep problem students (you know, that thing everyone always hates for holding their kids back and wasting everyone's classroom time) out of the way, and consistently bow to parental pressure to not punish misbehaving students because their job is political. Teachers want to get rid of misbehaving assholes, but the administration does not put in any effort to do so.

This is all because every rural small town in America is dying. Anyone with any financial literacy, capability, or valuable skill ran away. All that's left are the people who had no life plan, who flunked out, who wasted their youth, and have not grown up emotionally from their highschool days. They coalesce and form your local "good ol boy" network, and tend to take over local politics.

This superintendent had the job for decades despite continuing decline in outcomes. Hows that for not firing underperformers?

Re: Mississippi Can't Possibly Have Good Schools

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those failing kids eventually make it to the 8th grade, however, and affect statistics. Still, having lived there and attending one of the better middle and high schools near Vicksburg, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were gaming the system in some way (I hope they aren’t and these gains are real, though).

If a kid achieves a great 8th grade test score at age 18, is that a success or a failure of the system? What we care about is the level of achievement by a given age. To determine that, we need to be comparing states using standardized tests given to age groups, not grade levels. It is fine to hold students back, if we think that will do them more good than advancing them. But they still need to be tested the same wa…

If an 18 year old achieves a great score on an 8th grade test they are above average for adults.

Re: Mississippi Can't Possibly Have Good Schools

#218
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phonics is well supported by evidence to be the best way to teach children to decode words in English[1]. [1] https://www.sciencenews.org/article/balanced-literacy-phonic...

I wonder if other languages receive greater benefits from phonics than English? English is wild language with plenty examples of phonetic rules being broken. Take a simple word like 'rough'. Learning the phonetics doesn't help with the word 'cough'. Neither help with words like 'though' and 'through'. Words like 'read' and 'lead' cannot be properly pronounced without context clues. Not to mention all the odd-ball wor…

undoubtedly. Reading languages with clear phonetic rules like spanish can be quite easily learned by speakers. You only have to remember 27 symbols and their sounds.

Re: Mississippi Can't Possibly Have Good Schools

#219

I'm still trying to pinpoint exactly why Oregon has some of the worst scores in the country (I believe it ranked dead-last this year when adjusted for socio-economic factors). When I see what's going on around me, I can only think it's somewhat related to broken family's and undisciplined kids. The stuff that my kids come home and tell me is happening in school is pretty mind blowing. I've also noticed a complete rev…

I'm no longer living in Oregon but remain closely connected. I can't opine to the behavioral challenges, but in terms of the raw score drop I think there's also the one-two punch here of: 1) Schools were closed from Covid for a long time. Not here to debate whether that was good/bad/otherwise, but it is factually accurate to say Oregon schools remained remote longer than almost any others in the country, and we now k…

Portland and oregon more generally is nowhere close to the top in terms of percentage of residents who are poor immigrants. Even if it is the immigrants bringing down scores(my experience in k-12 was that the immigrants were the hardest workers and even though they had a lot of responsibilities/struggles to overcome they were never the worst performers) why is oregon worse than areas with more of them?

Re: Mississippi Can't Possibly Have Good Schools

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those failing kids eventually make it to the 8th grade, however, and affect statistics. Still, having lived there and attending one of the better middle and high schools near Vicksburg, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were gaming the system in some way (I hope they aren’t and these gains are real, though).

If a kid achieves a great 8th grade test score at age 18, is that a success or a failure of the system? What we care about is the level of achievement by a given age. To determine that, we need to be comparing states using standardized tests given to age groups, not grade levels. It is fine to hold students back, if we think that will do them more good than advancing them. But they still need to be tested the same wa…

If the kid is held back and not failed forward, at least they get a chance to fix things.
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