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Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

trifectatech.org

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Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#211

Post by mustache_kimono »

b112 wrote: post #209
mustache_kimono wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That all said, Rust is not a smoking gun for incorrect application logic. It could still happily incorrectly execute stuff with the wrong permissions or blow something up badly. This side steps the issue which is "Does Rust help you make software more correct?" No one is arguing that Rust is perfect. There are plenty of bugs in my Rust software. The question is only -- are we better off with Rust than the alternati…

Linux wants to lay claim to "the Rust kernel" Entirely untrue. It may happen, but there is zero consensus to port Linux to rust. Not even the tiniest bit.

> Entirely untrue. It may happen, but there is zero consensus to port Linux to rust. Not even the tiniest bit.

... But I did not say there was a consensus to port Linux to Rust? I'm sorry you misunderstood.

Now, why would Linux want to lay claim to being 'the Rust kernel' and how is that different than Linux being rewritten in Rust? I believe that there are many reasons why Linus chose to give Rust for Linux a chance. I believe at least one of those reasons is mindshare. If Linux chose not to experiment with Rust drivers, then that mindshare might go somewhere else.

>> Ubuntu wants to lay claim to "the Rust distribution"

Notice, Ubuntu is doing a similar thing. Canonical isn't porting all of Ubuntu to Rust. It is picking and choosing bits which they can, and would like, to move to Rust. Why? Probably for similar reasons. They want to seen as friendly to the Rust mindshare.

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#212

Post by thesuperbigfrog »

FpUser wrote: post #98
Gabrys1 wrote: post #78

> Ubuntu is the most widely deployed Linux operating system Nitpicking, but I thought Android was the most widely deployed Linux OS around...

I was Ubuntu user until they've introduced snap and started forcing it down everybody's throat. No more Ubuntu for me.

>> I was Ubuntu user until they've introduced snap and started forcing it down everybody's throat. No more Ubuntu for me.

What issues did you have with snap packages?

I am not aware of any problems with snap packages.

They have some pretty nice features compared to traditional packages:

https://snapcraft.io/docs/get-started#p-19156-connect-an-int...

If snap packages have caused problems for you, what were the problems?

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#214

Post by reissbaker »

IshKebab wrote: post #204
reissbaker wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way Windows does it is users are prompted to elevate permissions, and can be tricked into clicking "Yes," just like users can be tricked into using sudo.

Well yeah you can't enforce any security boundary if your threat model includes "user might be tricked". It can't be enforced on Linux because `sudo` can be trivially MitM'd, but you can't do that on Windows because it's just a click.

But the entire threat model we were discussing was that the user might be tricked:

Being a setuid binary means that sudo also suffers from attacks where an attacker runs `sudo ./malware` and then convinces the user to authenticate

That's why the OP said that's not an enforceable security boundary. If the user is capable of attaining superuser privs, you can trick them, regardless of how attaining those privs is implemented.

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#215

Post by theamk »

charcircuit wrote: post #174
onli wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would just elevate each regular account to be a root account. There is no other way to make things like modifying files directly under / possible, or to change system configurations. You can lock everything down instead, then you have Android, but then you have certainly not enabled everything a user can do with sudo.

>There is no other way to make things like modifying files directly under / possible It doesn't need to be possible. >change system configurations You can have an settings app to configure the system. >then you have Android Which is much farther ahead than Ubuntu on security. Ubuntu needs to play catch up. >but then you have certainly not enabled everything a user can do with sudo. The goal is not to be able to do ev…

Sounds like you don't want a Linux system, but rather a Chromebook. Have you seen https://chromeos.google/products/chromeos-flex/ ? Install it on your computer and you get Android-like security model, including only verified software and lack of "sudo" or any sort of root access.

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#216

Post by theamk »

charcircuit wrote: post #173
zahlman wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently, for any given action, the following possibilities are implemented: * The user may never perform the action (would require sudo, but the user doesn't have sudo rights) * The user may sometimes perform the action (i.e. only after authenticating with sudo) * The user may always perform the action (is always implicitly authenticated) "Being root" is just another name for the last option. What fourth alternativ…

>"Being root" is just another name for the last option. No, it's not. Take for example ping. If we want users to be able to always be able to use ping does that mean they need to be root? No, it doesn't. A privileged part of the OS can handle doing the raw socket and the unpriviledged user can talk to that part of the OS. The key point is that some operations that require privileges are okay to expose to a user, but…

Examples please? Modern desktop OSes are pretty good at exposing safe operations to users so that no "sudo" is required.

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#217

Post by theamk »

charcircuit wrote: post #175
lupusreal wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have that, it's called android. Anybody who finds themselves using sudo is already well off the beaten path, by their own choice. There's nothing wrong with that.

Doing system updates is not off the beaten path.

And system updates don't need sudo on desktops, it is not 1990's anymore... GUI apps like software-properties-gtk use dbus with polkit auth to upgrade software without any involvement of "sudo" or giving root access to users.

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#218

Post by johnisgood »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #200
johnisgood wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pretty sure it is around here somewhere: https://github.com/trifectatechfoundation/sudo-rs/issues . I apologize, I do not bookmark these issues, but maybe I should start doing that? In any case, you will find logic bugs which may raise the question "is it really worth the rewrite?".

A more interesting link is https://github.com/trifectatechfoundation/sudo-rs/issues?q=l... IMO. Glancing down that list, a lot of them aren't what I would personally view as major problems (ex. "rustup is inappropriate for security critical software" - maybe it is, but that's not a specific exploitable bug), but I would suggest https://github.com/trifectatechfoundation/sudo-rs/issues/575 as a potentially interesting…

Thank you!

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#219

Post by nicce »

butlike wrote: post #198
vgb2k18 wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me it was their begging for money on install.

Would you prefer the Microsoft way of begging for money before install?

Canonical has some interesting ways:

https://www.theregister.com/2021/02/11/microsoft_azure_ubunt...

Re: Memory-safe sudo to become the default in Ubuntu

#220

Post by steveklabnik »

nailer wrote: post #206
steveklabnik wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What your parent is referring to is that three of those links now 404. Some of that is simply because whitehouse.gov gets redone with new administrations, and so old stuff is thrown out. They're also referring to how the Trump admin is talking about seriously reducing CISA's budget. Things like that.

All the links are now fixed and return OK now. I don't think Whitehouse data archival is what the parent was referring to.

There were a lot of people online misinterpreting it, it’s possible they saw one of those threads.
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