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The language brain matters more for programming than the math brain? (2020)

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Re: The language brain matters more for programming than the math brain? (2020)

#211

Post by deeThrow94 »

RHSeeger wrote: post #93
School-Cotton wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cute, but do you have a serious answer?

I would argue that - Defining recursion is linguistic - Defining a function recursively is mathmatic

I agree that there's enormous value in carving out mathematics from other linguistic reasoning, but I don't see defining as something as mathematic rather than linguistic is generally useful. You use the same skills to look for incoherency in both situations, but human language is generally expected to be incoherent on some level.

Besides, a lot of what people mean when they say they're bad at math is that they're bad at arithmetic, which is honestly understandable.

Re: The language brain matters more for programming than the math brain? (2020)

#212

Post by rtkwe »

bee_rider wrote: post #177
vendiddy wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It took me a long time to realize math consisted of abstractions. I was never told, for example, that matrices are a useful abstraction (shorthand?) for representing linear equations. Or that imaginary numbers were an invented abstraction that made certain calculations easier. It would have been nice to learn it from the perspective of how those abstractions came into being and why they're useful.

> I was never told, for example, that matrices are a useful abstraction (shorthand?) for representing linear equations. Congratulations on overcoming the (very weird) choice of whoever taught your intro to linear algebra class.

Or just your regular 8/9th grade Algebra course where you should have learned systems of equations. That's where I first encountered using matrices for systems of equations at least. (maybe it was Algebra 2+ but it was definitely before taking Linear Algebra in college).

Re: The language brain matters more for programming than the math brain? (2020)

#214

Post by godelski »

jeffhuys wrote: post #179
godelski wrote: post #113

It think this is silly on multiple accounts. I'll claim that there's not real thing such as a "language brain" or "math brain." I'll also claim that most people don't know what math is, and that their evidence supports a "math brain". Math isn't about calculations/computations, it is about patterns. You get to algebra and think "what are these letters doing in my math" but once you get further you think "what are the…

Interesting to me how Wernicke’s Aphasia works then (which I have occasionally; my epilepsy stems from there + broca’s area). Could you explain that?

What is the question asking? Why do you have Aphasia? I'm not sure what the relationship here is. Or are you suggesting you're good at math but not good at language?

I feel weird answering even if I infer the right question because it feels tautological. If you have Wernicke's Aphasia does it not create the possibility that I already have but your condition resulted in misunderstanding. Given the condition does it not create a high probability that a response will similarly be misunderstood? Is not Anosognosia quite common?

Maybe I'm really misunderstanding but honestly I'm not sure what you're asking

Re: The language brain matters more for programming than the math brain? (2020)

#215

Post by godelski »

HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #185
godelski wrote: post #113

It think this is silly on multiple accounts. I'll claim that there's not real thing such as a "language brain" or "math brain." I'll also claim that most people don't know what math is, and that their evidence supports a "math brain". Math isn't about calculations/computations, it is about patterns. You get to algebra and think "what are these letters doing in my math" but once you get further you think "what are the…

> I'll claim that there's not real thing such as a "language brain" or "math brain. Did you even read beyond the silly headline? The article itself is about pre-testing subjects on a range of capabilities from problem solving ability to second (foreign) language learning ability, and then seeing how these correlated to the ability of the test subjects to learn to code. The results were basically exactly what might be…

  > Did you even read beyond the silly headline?
Yes. I'll also refer you to the HN guideline on this manner. You're welcome to disagree with me but you must communicate in good faith and unless you have a very specific reason for thinking I didn't "RTFM" then don't make the accusation.

I'm happy to continue discussing, but only on those terms. In fact, I think we're in far more agreement than your tone suggests. But I think you missed the crux of my point: math isn't number crunching

Re: The language brain matters more for programming than the math brain? (2020)

#216

Post by rconti »

The most obvious way in which I think "math" and "programming" are related is the way they're taught; by repetitive performance of problem sets. I got frustrated in math for this reason; it takes a lot of energy to sit and focus on a whole bunch of hard problems that all "look the same". It was too easy to do 1 or 2 and think "okay, I got it" and then move on, not realizing the repetition was the key to memorization.

I feel the same way about starting learning programming. Repetition, repetition, repetition, until you "get good".

Re: The language brain matters more for programming than the math brain? (2020)

#217

Post by thaumasiotes »

godelski wrote: post #197
bee_rider wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was never told, for example, that matrices are a useful abstraction (shorthand?) for representing linear equations. Congratulations on overcoming the (very weird) choice of whoever taught your intro to linear algebra class.

I'm not sure how to interpret this comment, it could easily be read in multiple ways. (Depends on priors) Regardless, it's a shockingly common occurrence. I'd agree it's not the right way, but it is also a common way. That perspective might define those priors

No, it is "very weird". Without knowing that a matrix represents a system of equations, Gaussian elimination would be pointless.

Re: The language brain matters more for programming than the math brain? (2020)

#218

Post by thaumasiotes »

godelski wrote: post #113

It think this is silly on multiple accounts. I'll claim that there's not real thing such as a "language brain" or "math brain." I'll also claim that most people don't know what math is, and that their evidence supports a "math brain". Math isn't about calculations/computations, it is about patterns. You get to algebra and think "what are these letters doing in my math" but once you get further you think "what are the…

> most people don't know what math is

It's surprisingly common. Case in point: "The unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics in the natural sciences".

A normal person wouldn't be surprised that describing how something works is a good way to understand it.

Re: The language brain matters more for programming than the math brain? (2020)

#220

Post by godelski »

potatoman22 wrote: post #187
godelski wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most coding doesn't need much of any math past boolean logic and very basic set operations Coding IS math. Not "coding uses math", I mean it is math. Mathematicians do not deal in objects, but in relations among objects; they are free to replace some object by others so long as the relations remain unchanged. Content to them is irrelevant; they are interested in form only. - Poincare[0] I don't know how you code, b…

I don't think that quote really supports coding and math being equivalent. To me, the quote provides an abstraction of math through a structuralist perspective. Language can also be viewed through this abstraction. I think coding could share the abstraction, but that doesn't make the three of these fields equivalent.

  > coding and math being equivalent
Please see lambda calculus. I mean equivalent in the way mathematicians do: that we can uniquely map everything from one set to another
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