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Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

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Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#211

Post by platinumrad »

ipaddr wrote: post #206
hbarka wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Meta or X get the same scrutiny or is this the China bogeyman?

An American company following the laws does not get the scrutiny that another company working with a hostile government to eliminate your way of life does. Why would they? Are they somehow equal because they both can be downloaded in the social app category in the play store? That's like asking why can I buy things from facebook marketplace but can't use my American credit card on vk.com?

I honestly don't think the Chinese government cares about my way of life.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#212

Post by platinumrad »

Macha wrote: post #161
hbarka wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Meta or X get the same scrutiny or is this the China bogeyman?

Yes: https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/23/tech/european-union-apple... Meta has had multiple rounds of €xxxM fines already from the EU.

The EU is fairly consistent in its application of fines. I think what the poster is commenting on is that when Meta collects data it's "Meta is spying", but when ByteDance collects data it's "China is spying".

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#213

Post by hnuser123456 »

lukeschlather wrote: post #207
SequoiaHope wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think anyone credible is taking the position that Meta and Google and Microsoft don’t spy for the US government but TikTok does spy for the Chinese government. This is simply a transparent double standard.

It's not a double standard. Meta is getting fines too, for similar offenses. Google actually seems to be compliant with the law.

One of the big pieces of Snowden's leaks is how the NSA has a backdoor into all of Google. Of course they're "compliant with the law". The law is to give the government a backdoor. This stuff is decided in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and the cases and rulings are classified.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#214

Post by NoahZuniga »

s_dev wrote: post #99

There’s a lot of frustration and cynicism in this thread, but I suspect some misunderstandings might be fuelling it. First off, Ireland is part of the EU, and under GDPR’s 'one-stop-shop' system, the country where a company has its EU headquarters in Ireland, in the case of many tech giants it takes the lead on enforcement for the entire EU. So when Ireland’s regulator fines a company under GDPR, they’re essentially…

> If Ireland collects a hefty fine, that amount is basically offset against what Ireland would normally contribute to the EU budget

Ireland paying x less dues is practically equivalent to them earning x money; it does just line Ireland's pockets. (Of course this is just the portion that isn't requested by other EU countries)

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#215

Post by SequoiaHope »

hnuser123456 wrote: post #213
lukeschlather wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a double standard. Meta is getting fines too, for similar offenses. Google actually seems to be compliant with the law.

One of the big pieces of Snowden's leaks is how the NSA has a backdoor into all of Google. Of course they're "compliant with the law". The law is to give the government a backdoor. This stuff is decided in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and the cases and rulings are classified.

Indeed! Eric Schmidt was regularly meeting with pentagon officials. I think he had stepped down as CEO by the time of those reports, but he was obviously very friendly to US government interests. We really tend to assume that CEOs all want to protect their data from the government but if they don’t want to do that we really can’t know or defend against it while using those services.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#216

Post by SequoiaHope »

lupusreal wrote: post #194
SequoiaHope wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think anyone credible is taking the position that Meta and Google and Microsoft don’t spy for the US government but TikTok does spy for the Chinese government. This is simply a transparent double standard.

They use spies, we use spies. Simultaneously, both sides try to stop the other. Calling this "double standards" or hypocrisy isn't technically wrong but it's also very tedious. Of course countries have a different policy towards their own spies and foreign spies. Why should anybody ever expect otherwise?

I mean it in the “technically correct” usage, in reply to someone who seemed to expect a unified standard between China and the US. My point is to be clear that the US is also spying on US citizens, but the government and media only dislike it when other countries do it.

Personally I don’t like that the US government runs mass surveillance against US citizens.

Also mass surveillance and spies are related but have some differences. The US can run mass surveillance through US corporations without spies, though I’m sure they also have spies.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#217

Post by crazygringo »

gaiagraphia wrote: post #181
crazygringo wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a nitpick -- a fraction of their profit (net income), not revenue. Most of revenue already goes out the door as expenses. If you fined as a reasonable fraction of revenue, you'd simply bankrupt a corporation, which is not what you want if your goal is to change behavior. If global revenue is $20B and we assume 20% profitability, that's $4B, and so this fine is 15% of global profit. That's a gigantic fine. You al…

The internal operations of a company shoud be irrelevant to nations. If a company is taking £billion out of a nation's spending power, and doing so with nefarious practices, that's what should be fined. If bankruptcy is a worry, then comapnies shouldn't fly so close to the sun when adopting immoral practices. Income is the only reliable thing you can tax. Trying to calculate profit for international companies is an a…

Nothing of what you're saying makes any sense.

> Income is the only reliable thing you can tax.

Then why does every country on earth tax corporate profit, not income?

> Why an Earth should governments employ entire teams to second guess internal bookkeeping?

Because that's how you make sure companies pay their taxes? Because it's a net gain to employ those teams because they find much more tax cheating than it costs to employ them?

> If a company is taking £billion out of a nation's spending power

Companies don't. They take cash and in return provide services that are even more valuable. The entire idea of free trade is that it's positive-sum for all.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#218

Post by crazygringo »

GeoAtreides wrote: post #182
crazygringo wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a nitpick -- a fraction of their profit (net income), not revenue. Most of revenue already goes out the door as expenses. If you fined as a reasonable fraction of revenue, you'd simply bankrupt a corporation, which is not what you want if your goal is to change behavior. If global revenue is $20B and we assume 20% profitability, that's $4B, and so this fine is 15% of global profit. That's a gigantic fine. You al…

>You also have to remember that tons of these regulations are vague and unclear and massively open to interpretation, and that companies can genuinely believe they are complying, and their lawyers agree, but then judges still rule otherwise, because it's ultimately just a matter of opinion because of the vagueness. This is the equivalent of the famous Babbage anecdote, but for the law. That's absolutely not how the l…

...but it absolutely is? Why do you think fines get appealed, and companies often win on appeal?

If there weren't vagueness and shades of gray, then appeals courts would barely need to exist.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#219

Post by crazygringo »

ta1243 wrote: post #172
crazygringo wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a nitpick -- a fraction of their profit (net income), not revenue. Most of revenue already goes out the door as expenses. If you fined as a reasonable fraction of revenue, you'd simply bankrupt a corporation, which is not what you want if your goal is to change behavior. If global revenue is $20B and we assume 20% profitability, that's $4B, and so this fine is 15% of global profit. That's a gigantic fine. You al…

When you get a fine in Europe it tends to be related to your income. Not your income after your expenses, your actual income. Finland for example will fine you 100k for speeding if your income is high enough. In the UK fines range from 50% of your weekly income (band A) to 600% of your weekly income. Someone on £500 a week income and spending that on housing, food etc, could pay £3k. Someone with the same offence on…

Well, individuals and corporations are different.

Individuals are also taxed on all their income, whereas corporations are taxed only on their profit.

Corporations are effectively intermediaries in production chains. Profit is the only meaningful metric, how much value do they add. Individuals are at the "end" of the chain, how much value do they consume.

The proper analogy of a fine being based on income for an individual, is for a fine being based on profit for a corporation.

Re: Irish privacy watchdog hits TikTok with €530M fine over data transfers to China

#220

Post by crazygringo »

lupusreal wrote: post #164
crazygringo wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a nitpick -- a fraction of their profit (net income), not revenue. Most of revenue already goes out the door as expenses. If you fined as a reasonable fraction of revenue, you'd simply bankrupt a corporation, which is not what you want if your goal is to change behavior. If global revenue is $20B and we assume 20% profitability, that's $4B, and so this fine is 15% of global profit. That's a gigantic fine. You al…

Doing anything by fractions of profit is an invitation for Hollywood accounting. "Oops we have no profit because we have accountants who's job it is to shuffle money around in circles until everybody gets confused and gives up." > simply bankrupt a corporation, which is not what you want if your goal is to change behavior. Yes it is. Nuke the corporation and burn all the investors. This will teach a lesson.

No it's not.

The goal of punishment is correction of behavior, not destruction.

By your logic, we ought to apply the death penalty for stealing a candy bar. Because that will teach a lesson too, no?

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