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Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

developer.apple.com

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Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#211

Post by hnlmorg »

alt227 wrote: post #24
hnlmorg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically the App Store only exists because of the ridicule Apple received when they announced their new smartphone which then only supported 3rd party applications as web apps. Back then, native apps were considered a “must have” feature for smartphones. How times have changed.

The App store and native apps are not one and the same. OP didnt say that native apps need to die, only the app store. Android ecosystem deals just fine with native apps being distributed in .apk format which can just easily be installed by the user clicking on the file. Why cant this happen on Apple devices too?

I didn’t say they are. I implied a connection though. And the reason for that should be obvious: if native apps hadn’t existed then we’d have never travelled down this road with an App Store

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#212

Post by jimbokun »

UncleMeat wrote: post #87
coldcode wrote: post #69

At the risk of not piling on to the Apple dislike here, if you use a non-Apple payment system, and you have an issue, you now need to go to the specific company and payment system, you can no longer demand your money back by dealing with a single company. I presume even more scam apps will take your money and ignore your complaints; imagine trying to sue a company in some foreign country to try to get your money back…

You are free to only use apps that use apple payments if you are concerned about this.

Yes but will it be clear to users when they are using one vs the other?

Presumably Apple could have had more control over communicating this if they opened up external payment options voluntarily.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#213

Post by stingraycharles »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #159
stingraycharles wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly it. They’re acting as if it’s something that’s going to be reversed, and are going to appeal. If they also apply the same rules to other countries, it would hurt their case that this court order is unjust.

They can just get a presidential pardon for now and all future acts. Companies are people. Unkillable people. Unjailable people. They don't sleep. They have a thousand arms, a thousand eyes, a thousand legs, thousand brains. They get better financing, they can walk away from their financing. I can send unlimited money to politicians. They can exist in a thousand places, countries, legal systems at once.

I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make, unless it’s some generic anti-corporate stuff.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#214

Post by hnlmorg »

pjc50 wrote: post #145
hnlmorg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically the App Store only exists because of the ridicule Apple received when they announced their new smartphone which then only supported 3rd party applications as web apps. Back then, native apps were considered a “must have” feature for smartphones. How times have changed.

Hmm. I'm not sure about this aspect of history. iPhone app store launch was July 2008, Play Store launch was October 2008. Symbian store was actually after this (yes, really) https://venturebeat.com/business/mobile-os-company-symbian-e... Which app stores pre-dated iOS? Now, Symbian and various others had apps, but you had to buy them through the carrier . And carriers were even worse gatekeepers than Apple!

App Stores weren’t but native apps were:

> Back then, native apps were considered a “must have” feature for smartphones.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#215

Post by dfxm12 »

tracerbulletx wrote: post #190
jader201 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No gambling, no randomized loot boxes, etc. > So I give Tim a lot of credit for maintaining such a principled stance. IMO, someone that drives and capitalizes on addictive spending by an underage audience should never be considered principled. While it may not be considered gambling, it’s not much better when it’s often out of control due to feeding on FOMO.

Ah yes, toy makers, the true problem of our world. 30 years ago I'm sure you'd be complaining about "addicted" spending on keeping up with the most popular Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle toys. It's not evil to make things kids want and make money off it. If you don't want your kids to buy things, that's on you and its a problem from time immemorial, not a new issue with video games.

I think the persistence of advertising is an issue overall. I think we are worse off today now that you get bombarded with targeted ads and there's usually a seamless buy now button displayed within them.

Preying on whales is exploiting psychological issues. New technology certainly does exist today to aid in this exploitation that didn't exist 30 yrs ago.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#216

Post by gjsman-1000 »

brutal_chaos_ wrote: post #207
taylorbuley wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way my favorite boss told me, it was "don't let `great` be the enemy of `good enough.`"

Good enough is how everything went to shit (enshitification). "It's an MVP? Good enough, ship it and bolt on features no one wants." Personally, I am very tired of "good enough." I wish we built great things.

"Enshitification" is probably the most self-sabotaging term we could think of; in terms of how it makes us look like whining teenagers. I will never use it in polite conversation; which would ironically be a tech company's greatest goal for if we had a word.

But optics aside, this also ignores the problem that many of these businesses were not sustainable and were never sustainable. They are heading downhill, partially because they never had any ground to stand on. If we want to see less of this behavior, we should stop allowing the blitzscale strategy of running a loss to gain marketshare.

This is also why the claim of "greed" or "enshitification" falls on deaf ears for them. They could easily say: "No, we lit billions on fire as an investment to keep it free and grow market share; we're now asking for some returns on that investment. We're not adding a Pro plan, we were paying for the Pro plan previously. Be thankful for how long it lasted, and how much money you saved."

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#217

Post by j45 »

coldcode wrote: post #69

At the risk of not piling on to the Apple dislike here, if you use a non-Apple payment system, and you have an issue, you now need to go to the specific company and payment system, you can no longer demand your money back by dealing with a single company. I presume even more scam apps will take your money and ignore your complaints; imagine trying to sue a company in some foreign country to try to get your money back…

This is how everything pretty much works outside of the app store ecosystem.

It's possible to file a complaint with your credit card company and if need be do a chargeback.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#218

Post by CrimsonRain »

nashashmi wrote: post #182

> … except for apps on the United States storefront, the apps may not… US based app developers hosting apps on app stores in other countries should also be covered by the injunction. What am I missing? Is the injunction only covering US based app market? And does not cover app developers? Tim, come back. The deed is yet to be completed.

My question also.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#219

Post by dfxm12 »

itchyjunk wrote: post #198
StefanBatory wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Fortnite, skins are available to buy only sometimes. At a given time, you can buy like, 6-7 of them. If you want something that is not up, well, tough luck, it may never come back.

Isn't this true with collectable toys? My adult friends sure seem to be addicted to purchasing Pokemon cards. They talk about thousands of dollars spent when I am curious about numbers.

Yes, and?

ETA: Exploiting adult whales is bad too, if that's the angle you were going.

Re: Apple App Store guidelines remove ban on encouraging external payments in US

#220

Post by nolok »

solardev wrote: post #203
EcommerceFlow wrote: post #167

If you haven't watched Tim Sweeney's appearance on Lex Fridman (which went live two days ago ironically), he discusses this battle against Apple, which he's maintained at a furious pace for years. He goes into detail on how the previous guidelines stifle innovation, how app developers are basically forced to implement anti-consumer practices to maintain the ridiculous costs of achieving success on the app store, etc.…

Fortnite started as a P2W coop game where legendary weapons were all inside loot boxes. It was very predatory. Then an internal team at Epic made an experimental battle royale mode and that's what became modern Fortnite. The old one is still available as Fortnite: Save the World. Epic is largely owned by Tencent anyway, who makes a lot of their money from gambling games.

Not really it started as a game for sale, in active dev trying various stuff alongside paragon and unreal 4

They ultimately refunded everyone who bought the original or the two other games

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