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LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

librelingo.app

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Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#211

Post by Ajedi32 »

HWR_14 wrote: post #206
Ajedi32 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that DuoLingo does offer live voice conversations with an AI partner so it's not just translation. Unfortunately that's a "super premium" feature though; even the normal paid tier doesn't include it.

I mean, the AI partner is probably getting paid, so I can see DuoLingo needing to increase their rates if you use that service.

I'm not sure exactly what method they're using, but inference costs for speech to speech models are pretty significant so it does make some sense to charge more. The LLM-based text explanations for translation problems are also in the super premium tier though, and those can't be that expensive, so maybe it's just an attempt at market segmentation.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#212

Post by isaacremuant »

arghwhat wrote: post #123
isaacremuant wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next time pay enough for a class or have a good private tutor and all you've said becomes true. But hey, the alternative is pretending classes are not better than Duolingo so go do that and you'll have the same results.

No, private tutors are definitely better but they are no silver bullet. Having a great private tutors often and long enough to exercise sporadic conversation and gain confidence in language use - a class a few times a week at least - is also a prohibitively expensive solution suggestion for most people, making it a non-solution. You also end in a false dichotomy.

This site is full of web developers telling people they get what they pay for but then call tutors "prohibitively expensive".

You want that education, invest in it. With time and money. Of course, the "a few minutes per day in the commute for 9.99" feels attractive and it even gets you to a basic stage but then it's what we already discussed.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#214

Post by watwut »

dilap wrote: post #167
crispyambulance wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have vastly different needs when learning a second language. Many folks never need to progress beyond "perpetual beginner" and that's perfectly fine. If you're traveling for work or pleasure, it's nice to learn some key things about the language and freshen up on vocabulary. Basic words/phrases about time, money, food, etiquette, and travel will go surprisingly far when you put yourself somewhere that another…

You're a little too kind to Duolingo. It is useful for the very, very beginning, but people sink a ton of time into it which could've been used to actually learn the language. Making something as fun to use as Duolingo but that actually teaches you the language is an open problem.

> but people sink a ton of time into it which could've been used to actually learn the language.

Or it would be used to do something completely different that is nor language learning at all. There is this hypothetical world where the 10min of duolingo before sleep with some binging here and there is the only thing to prevent you feo. regularly spending considerably more effort (and time) if a more serious effort.

That is just not how it works.

Here is the thing - Duolingo is actually teaching things. Slowly. And not things of your choice. But you are slowly progressing. And it gets you further then downloading anki deck or graded reader you find boring or even language transfer and giving up on them three weeks later.

You can make an app with different trade off or more fun app. But you will have to choose between causual and intensive.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#215

Post by thaumasiotes »

deeThrow94 wrote: post #132
thaumasiotes wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LLMs are absolutely not ready to be your sole source for language learning. > They seem perfectly competent at communicating in whatever language you want These two sentences contradict; that's the only thing you want for language learning. > but for example, explaining grammatical concepts of one language in another language they have been surprisingly incompetent at in my experience Doesn't matter.

I'm learning an admittedly fairly obscure african language, but one with tens of millions of speakers worldwide. LLM can produce intelligible but grammatically-incorrect and unidiomatic output. Is this better or worse than not helping at all? I'd argue worse.

There are two things to say here:

> I'm learning an admittedly fairly obscure african language, but one with tens of millions of speakers worldwide. LLM can produce intelligible but grammatically-incorrect and unidiomatic output.

This isn't a problem with the technology; it's easy to observe that it doesn't happen with better-known languages. Your problem is that you don't have a model for your target language.

> Is this better or worse than not helping at all? I'd argue worse.

My first instincts go that way too. But note that language classes consider it desirable for the students to try to speak with each other in the target language. (And not just where they can be supervised - the more they do it, in any context, the better.)

If the only input you ever get has the grammar incorrect, your grammar will also be incorrect. But you can handle a lot of your input being incorrect without major problems.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#216

Post by skydhash »

ghaff wrote: post #158
skydhash wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need very little grammar in the first place. And if you learned your native one, it becomes easier to just store the difference (leaks may still happen). Coherent input where previous words are repeated while you learned new one are best (watch subtitled movies, and you can pick a lot if you’re focused on that).

Probably especially with a related language. I remember high school French (vaguely) abd it was probably a pretty good 4 years of high school French. But I also remember memorizing a ton of complex tenses and the like, many of which I probably rarely use in English, couldn't name, and would probably be hard for a lot of people to parse if I did, especially conversationally and mixed with negation.

Yep, French has a lot of rules! But they are grammar rules only. So while rote memorization is hard, a good tutor can hel you with the basic understanding. At the end of the day, it’s just practice. With english, you have to practice spelling and pronunciation, with French you have to practice grammar.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#217

Post by jghn »

vitro wrote: post #191
TheJoeMan wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do any alternatives take a more "fully immersive" approach? I tried this LibreLingo, but the first question I got was "Which of these is The Sun?". Once you learn/memorize a few basic Spanish phrases such as "¿Qué significa?" you can stay immersed in the language. When you see a photo of the sun, you need to jump straight to El Sol, not Photo->"The Sun"->"El Sol".

Try Spanish in Latudio [0]. It is not quite for beginners, you need to have at least basic vocabulary, but regarding immersion, it should fit what you are looking for. It uses a listening-first approach and contextual translations with vocabulary and lets you explore words you didn't get in other contexts. [0] https://www.latudio.com/

Do they have a version that's not a mobile app? Or will it at least work on the desktop/web browser? I'm not going to use something like that on my phone.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#218

Post by pkdpic »

Nice to see this pop up, not that I mind giving Duo money every month for my kids account.

Still looking for DuoLingo for actual programming... python etc... Specifically for elementary school kids... I know it's out there... Im getting closer...

I know this is a false statement but it would be so easy for DuoLingo to add Python along side their Math and Music betas!!

Please Duo hear my prayers...

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#219

Post by nine_k »

_fat_santa wrote: post #198

I used Duolingo for about a year to learn Portuguese but I recently switched to just taking a course I bought on Udemy. First let me say that Duolingo is great for learning vocabulary but unfortunately that's it's only strength. The problem I realized after starting the Udemy course is that Duolingo teaches you the words but they seldom teach sentence structure or the "glue" between all those words you learn. So you…

From my experience, Duolingo teaches you the vocabulary and the set sentences very well. But this is by far not enough. I use regular textbooks that describe the structure of the language, the grammar, the syntax, etc, so as to gain some analytical understanding of it. On top of that, Duolingo helps to get used to recognize these structures and flesh them out with various words. Also, unlike a book, it forces you to listen, and, crucially, to speak. It's a very important step from being able to read written language only to being able to actually talk.

Re: LibreLingo – FOSS Alternative to Duolingo

#220

Post by alkonaut »

This space seems like one of those areas where it would be really hard to break in because their whole selling point is having had hundreds or thousands of people record and annotate an enormous amount of voice input, which I assume has to be hand polished for every single exercise?

I'm sure some part of it could be automated these days, or some parts even use voice synthesis, but I'm sure it would take basically an army of people hand-crafting it for the experience not to be very janky in the end.

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