The interesting thing here is that Apple finally learned that games matter. Of course they go about it in the same "we're never wrong" attitude by never admitting it, like how their mice don't have two physical buttons to stay true to "a mouse should have one button" from the original Mac. They're learning though, it was voluntary unlike USB-C on their phones/tablets.
Native visionOS platform support
211–220 of 346 posts
Re: Native visionOS platform support
#212Reading a lot of comments it sounds like Apple should: 1. Give Godot some money. 2. Implement visionOS support via an extension not directly into core OR conform to industry standard OpenXR.
The people making the latter comments are ignoring the contents of this PR however, and showing a lack of understanding of the engine itself in the process. You cannot build this as an extension. It’s a different OS and Godot needs it to be done this way, as many people in the PR have commented as well. An extension would not cover it, and people suggesting that are probably used to the PC VR development model where…
You are instead given a DOM (really imagine idiosyncratic SVG for 3D) API and you must facade it to your engine object model.
Apple has forced library developers into a situation even worse than Metal: a single, idiosyncratic scene graph like API. None of the performance benefits of using the technology natively. None of the DX benefits of single code, run anywhere, since everything has to be aware of the spatial rendering limitations. It’s like Negative React Native: they had you a weird React that’s non native, and you must wrap it.
Truly, and I have no hesitation here because I will never want to work for Apple and they’re going downhill: this PR has its head so far up its butt.
Maybe this employee should have spent all this time convincing Apple to give developers access to the GPU.
Re: Native visionOS platform support
#213This indicates to me that the Apple Vision and visionOS product line and OS are not canceled internally and that Apple is still committed to its future. While the Apple Vision Pro itself is not a good or successful product, progress in display technology will enable Apple to build a more attractive consumer product, in the form of light, comfortable and unobtrusive AR glasses. In this line of thinking — not just focu…
I must admit I'm baffled by this reaction to the first model:
* It's clearly far more impressive technologically than any competitor.
* The price point clearly indicates it wasn't aimed at the general consumer, which is normal for such a massive technological leap compared to their other recent consumer stuff (e.g. the apple watch).
* They got loads of feedback
* Nobody who is this critical seems to articulate what success would have looked like.
> in the form of light, comfortable and unobtrusive AR glasses.
This just seems like a fantasy. I don't understand why people expect this is possible. Battery alone precludes this. Even just streaming video back and forth is going to be too power-hungry for serious use with lightweight glasses.
Re: Native visionOS platform support
#214It’s nice to see this addition. I’m not sure if Godot would be better off bridging OpenXR to apple’s ar compositer or do as these PRs implement. It isn’t much work to bridge from a metal renderer to the ar compositor. There are nice, if under documented c apis for Compositor Services in visionOS. I don’t think this will end up being a heavy maintenance burden, but they should donate some headsets as the second vertex…
profiting 180 billion USD per year should put them in a position to also provide grants for hiring workforce for the necessary amount of years that will take to popularize their current and new AR/VR technology (if it'll ever be popular)
even if Godot starts also being the backend for non-gaming applications (which i don't know how the discussion about this went/is going), which AVP could also benefit, i doubt the investement of time to maintain this PR will pay itself, i.e. the few developers releasing software for Apple VR will make enough money and will donate enough for covering maintainer(s) to keep up with a (so far niche) new OS in Godot!
Re: Native visionOS platform support
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
Spatial computing.
Spatial computing is to interact with and manipulate 3D space—blending the physical and digital worlds. It enables users to understand, interpret, and respond to the geometry, position, and movement of real-world environments. I fail to see that as a future mode of user/computer interaction that competes with or augments mobile/laptop computer usage in any meaningful way. Even movie watching, the most successful appl…
It’s telling that the best use case Facebook could come up with for its AI YouTube commercial spam is “give me conversion starters” lol.
Re: Native visionOS platform support
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
What Apple should do is drive a truckload of money on Valve's doorstep and get a Proton-like system built for M-series Macs.
They have done that. They gave some cash money to CodeWeavers, the company that created wine. It's called the Game Porting Toolkit: https://developer.apple.com/games/game-porting-toolkit/
Re: Native visionOS platform support
#217Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's nothing really to "throw away" that would make it slighter and smaller whilst still keeping your desired feature set. The reality is that you're using the VR/AR features in one specific way - not that you're not using VR/AR It's possible a slightly weaker CPU or GPU could be used but I don't think so and in any case the effects of that would be on cost not on weight. And I don't think the difference would be…
If used as a display only, get rid of the M2 CPU subsystem, get rid of the external display, and maybe some of the cameras.
I don't think you can get rid of cameras without reducing the gesture tracking fidelity. That's the reason the Vision Pro has so many cameras.
> M2 CPU subsystem
Not clear on what this means without looking up the spec sheet. Do you mean "use a slower CPU" or something else? If the former - it won't help that much with size or weight.
Sounds like you're really looking for something like the Bigscreen Beyond?
Re: Native visionOS platform support
#218This indicates to me that the Apple Vision and visionOS product line and OS are not canceled internally and that Apple is still committed to its future. While the Apple Vision Pro itself is not a good or successful product, progress in display technology will enable Apple to build a more attractive consumer product, in the form of light, comfortable and unobtrusive AR glasses. In this line of thinking — not just focu…
I believe there's going to be a lot more investment if no other reason than Tim Cook seems to care deeply about it (and beating Zuckerberg). Strategically it make sense. The only real threat to the iPhone which Apple makes all their money from, is a new form factor that replaces phones. Maybe glasses/goggles will never replace phones, but spending billions a year to make sure that you win the glasses market just in c…
Red Flags!
>> "Tim cares about nothing else," an insider with knowledge of the matter told Gurman. "It’s the only thing he’s really spending his time on from a product development standpoint."
>> he's looking to beat Meta CEO Mark Zuckerberg — who shares an obsession with AR and VR headsets — to market.
Is Tim Cook a product person now?
Does Apple care about being first now (instead of being best)?
Before the Vision Pro release we heard similar reporting from Gurman (1) (and recall the skepticism about Gurman's reporting: 2)
Yet here we are. After a decade of promoting AR (3) Tim Apple released a headset of which "the weirder things about visionOS (and the Vision Pro itself, really) is that there’s not a lot of true AR in the mix" (4)
Red Flags!
1. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-05-18/apple-s-m...
2. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/05/18/gurman-headset-...
3. https://www.theverge.com/21077484/apple-tim-cook-ar-augmente...
4. https://www.theverge.com/24054862/apple-vision-pro-review-vr...
Re: Native visionOS platform support
#219Earlier quoted context omitted.
> no controller = no games. Bundling a controller would increase the cost for everyone to satisfy a minority of gamers. So instead they support all PS5, Xbox, BT etc controllers.
Those aren’t VR controllers and no one is using them.
Re: Native visionOS platform support
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t recall enabling it.
This doesn't load for me on my iPhone or iPad: https://webgpu.github.io/webgpu-samples/?sample=texturedCube