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After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

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Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#211

Post by autoexec »

sagarpatil wrote: post #93
jmward01 wrote: post #50

The obvious methodology at work here is 'fire everyone then hopefully re-hire only what is blindingly obviously needed'. There are many, many problems with this approach in a business setting but even more from a governmental setting. The first, and what should be obvious to anyone with an ounce of empathy, is that these are real people who's lives are being toyed with. It isn't like you are trying out a new business…

Rightly said. The Trump administration’s focus seems to be more on saving/making money and less about the overall effects on the people who are getting affected by it.

He will enrich himself, but he isn't saving any money. All this incompetence is going to take a lot of money out of the pockets of taxpayers.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#212

Post by Doxin »

benterix wrote: post #200
Terr_ wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, it's completely destroying an incredibly valuable asset: The reputation of being a stable long-term employer! (This is possibly their corrupt intent.) The immediate "savings" reduced workforce (even assuming the same level of work gets done) can easily be obliterated by the long-term damage of needing to pay more to attract equally-qualified applicants away from the private sector. Some quick napkin-math just t…

> Also, it's completely destroying an incredibly valuable asset: The reputation of being a stable long-term employer! (This is possibly their corrupt intent.) Yeah but what's the plan? They already have crappy pay and now it gets unstable - who'd want to work for the government? Only desperates.

> who'd want to work for the government?

No one and I think that's the point. The current administration seems hell-bent on making corporations able to do whatever they please. Destroying government institutions is probably a good way to go about achieving that.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#213

Post by autoexec »

imgabe wrote: post #147
serviceberry wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For better or worse, government jobs are perceived as something you get for life. That was part of the appeal: yeah, the pay is less than in the private sector, but they're unlikely to fire you even if you're not good or if the role no longer makes sense. But that aside: even if we want to alter the deal, there are good ways and bad ways to do this. Jobs are important because they are a big part of your life and beca…

> For better or worse, government jobs are perceived as something you get for life. That was part of the appeal: yeah, the pay is less than in the private sector, but they're unlikely to fire you even if you're not good or if the role no longer makes sense. Yeah, that is definitely "for worse". The point of hiring someone to do a job is to get something useful done. Not to hand out do-nothing sinecures to lucky lotte…

> This is your tax money that is being spent.

and if you aren't getting what you're owed for that money you have the ability to vote out the people responsible for that and elect people who can deliver what we're asking for. Try voting out the CEO of walmart.

Believe it or not, when a bunch of incompetents aren't dismantling them, most government agencies get their work done. There are a lot fewer "do-nothing"s than you think and a lot of hard workers who are proud to serve their fellow Americans.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#214

Post by rsynnott »

somenameforme wrote: post #127
rexpop wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only were an isolated incident, and not the latest in a long train of abuses and usurpations.

Except it's the same in literally all of these articles. Some relatively minor mistake is taken and blown up into some huge degree of maliciousness or unprecedented incompetence. People then 'social mediaize' it all by taking it at face value, and then getting each other even more riled up - exactly like a mob. It's easy to see where this is coming from because each writer of these sort of articles likely had colleag…

Seems like these idiots are making a lot of ‘minor mistakes’, and people are losing patience.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#215

Post by autoexec »

arkh wrote: post #169
grues-dinner wrote: post #70

> A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision. It was true in 1979, it's true today. Blaming "coding" for this is an explicit admission that someone is shirking their accountability.

At least they only got fired. Not prosecuted for fraud like the British postal service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal > In all, between 1999 and 2015, over 900 subpostmasters were prosecuted and 236 went to prison.

The more governments and corporations try to shove AI into everything the worse this problem is going to get. Blindly trusting computers was always a terrible idea, and now computers are getting even less reliable.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#216

Post by fastball »

flir wrote: post #202
fastball wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly. People who just want a stable job are in it for the (stable) money.

You just made an argument about government based on a comparison with the private sector, and now you're agreeing that government and the private secctor have fundamentally different goals. Got to admit, I'm a bit lost.

The argument wasn't based on a comparison to the private sector. The argument is based on the fact that I prefer people who passionate about their jobs vs people who just want a stable paycheck. However the argument also applies to the private sector, which is why I mentioned it.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#217

Post by arkh »

autoexec wrote: post #215
arkh wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least they only got fired. Not prosecuted for fraud like the British postal service: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal > In all, between 1999 and 2015, over 900 subpostmasters were prosecuted and 236 went to prison.

The more governments and corporations try to shove AI into everything the worse this problem is going to get. Blindly trusting computers was always a terrible idea, and now computers are getting even less reliable.

The main problem is the lack of responsibility all along the chain.

25 years and people who shifted blame and were OK with people going to prison so their bonus would not be impacted are still enjoying life out of jail.

Seeing this lack of consequence how can you expect people to behave ethically?

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#218

Post by imgabe »

autoexec wrote: post #213
imgabe wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For better or worse, government jobs are perceived as something you get for life. That was part of the appeal: yeah, the pay is less than in the private sector, but they're unlikely to fire you even if you're not good or if the role no longer makes sense. Yeah, that is definitely "for worse". The point of hiring someone to do a job is to get something useful done. Not to hand out do-nothing sinecures to lucky lotte…

> This is your tax money that is being spent. and if you aren't getting what you're owed for that money you have the ability to vote out the people responsible for that and elect people who can deliver what we're asking for. Try voting out the CEO of walmart. Believe it or not, when a bunch of incompetents aren't dismantling them, most government agencies get their work done. There are a lot fewer "do-nothing"s than…

You don’t need to vote out the CEO of Wal-Mart. He can’t put you in jail or confiscate your income via taxes. You just go shop at target or somewhere else instead.

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#219

Post by fastball »

autoexec wrote: post #186
fastball wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we actually want "I just want a stable job" people being a significant part of the federal governments workforce? I generally wouldn't want those people to work for my company, so not sure why I'd want them to work in my government.

> Do we actually want "I just want a stable job" people being a significant part of the federal governments workforce? Yes. People looking for a stable job put down roots and grow communities. They gain deep knowledge of the systems and people they work with, and they gain valuable wisdom from experience. I have no idea why you wouldn't want people looking for a stable job at your company. Why would you want an emplo…

The comment I replied to was holding out the federal government as an especially stable employer, as compared to the private sector. Sure, you don't want a reputation for firing people a week after you hired them, but A. that is not what is happening here B. not doing that doesn't mean it is actually desireable for the federal government to be seen as a more stable alternative to the private sector.

Said another way: any company can have the reputation GC claims the federal government does, but most don't. Why is that?

Re: After 'coding error' triggers firings, top NIH scientists called back to work

#220

Post by autoexec »

imgabe wrote: post #218
autoexec wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is your tax money that is being spent. and if you aren't getting what you're owed for that money you have the ability to vote out the people responsible for that and elect people who can deliver what we're asking for. Try voting out the CEO of walmart. Believe it or not, when a bunch of incompetents aren't dismantling them, most government agencies get their work done. There are a lot fewer "do-nothing"s than…

You don’t need to vote out the CEO of Wal-Mart. He can’t put you in jail or confiscate your income via taxes. You just go shop at target or somewhere else instead.

The most universally hated companies are also among the richest. Voting with your wallet is a myth. The entire point of a private company is to confiscate your income. They must charge you as much as they possibly can while providing you with as little as they can possibly get away with. Maybe you've even noticed prices going up while enshittification and shrinkflation increases.
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