What if we made advertising illegal? • Hacker News Board

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#211

Post by antasvara » Sat, Apr 05, 2025, 7:31 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #94

toomim wrote: post #10

This begs the question: how could you reliably distinguish advertising from other forms of free speech? The courts already distinguish "commercial speech" as a class of speech. Would we prevent all forms of commercial speech? What about a waiter asking you "would you like to try a rosé with that dish? It pairs very well together." Is that "advertising" that would need to be outlawed? What about giving out free sample…

If money exchanges hands. If you pay someone to distribute flyers, or you pay someone to run ads. If you expect a this for that that benefits the giver. Like say a pharma offering free airfare and lodging to a medical conference if you talk up their product to patients. There will be corner cases, obscure circumstances, unforeseen loopholes, etc., but this would be a good start.

Worth questioning who that benefits the most. It definitely benefits consumers in the sense that they won't be bombarded by advertisements.

But it also benefits large businesses that already spent millions advertising and now have a much deeper moat.

It kind of reminds me of college sports before NIL deals. Back then, you couldn't pay college recruits. You'd think this levels the playing field, right?

In fact, we saw the opposite effect. You see schools spending millions to add waterslides to their locker rooms, or promising "exposure" that smaller schools can't offer. You essentially had to spend twice as much on stuff that indirectly benefited the players.

I'd expect similar things to happen among businesses. Think "crazy stunt in Times Square so that an actual news site will write about it."

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#212

Post by p3rls » Sat, Apr 05, 2025, 7:31 PM UTC

doug-moen wrote: post #195

Advertising was originally illegal on the internet. It was for non-profit activities only (university and industrial research and educational activities). When the world wide web first deployed in 1989, web advertising was illegal. The rules changed some time in the early 1990's. I do remember a major scandal that occurred in the 1980's when somebody posted an advertisement to usenet. At the time, there was a lot of…

Noted non-commercial entities like AT&T, HP and IBM were among the first owners (renters) of 2nd level domains on .com (for commercial) in the mid-80s though. These rules have always been murky and mostly used to beat down those of us without lawyers on retainer while established players will do whatever they want.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#213

Post by kcatskcolbdi » Sat, Apr 05, 2025, 7:32 PM UTC

bofadeez wrote: post #85

kcatskcolbdi wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's open for discussion. Free speech is not limitless. You can wax poetically all you want about endowment by the creator, but try saying racial slurs on daytime TV and see how long that lasts. Advertisement is just another form of speech that can be limited.

"Congress shall MAKE NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." What part of that are you confused by? You are making a brash claim that the writ of the state includes the ability to censor speech. Your right…

There are already established legal limits on speech.

Again, try screaming racial slurs on daytime television. You will be met with a fine and/or imprisonment.

I am not a lawyer. I am not a member of congress. I did not write the law. I don't particularly like or agree with those laws. But they exist, and unless I'm mistaken it seems like you're unwilling to acknowledge their existence.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#214

Post by YurgenJurgensen » Sat, Apr 05, 2025, 7:32 PM UTC

georgelyon wrote: post #68

hedayet wrote: post #14

Advertising has consequences, and I’m not a big fan of it, but it’s also a necessary evil. It’s easy to dismiss advertising as just a profit engine for ad platforms, but that’s only part of the picture. At its best, advertising plays a meaningful role in solution and product discovery, especially for new or niche offerings that users wouldn’t encounter otherwise. It also promotes fairer market competition by giving s…

The idea of product discovery has value. Advertising funds product discovery by taking some of the funds that you pay for goods, and funneling that money to platforms and creators that are willing to help others discover that product. There is an alternative model where we simply pay professional product discoverers. Think influencers, but whose customer is the fan not the sponsor. It would be a massive cultural shif…

Those existed once. They were called ‘magazines’. But they mostly became ad-supported, and then got killed by the Internet.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#215

Post by Rygian » Sat, Apr 05, 2025, 7:32 PM UTC

pishpash wrote: post #152

imiric wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need to go into absurd discussions in order to prevent 99% of the harm that comes from modern advertising. The line is clear: is money being exchanged in order to promote a product? That's advertising. Someone I know mentioning a product because they want to recommend it to me? Not advertising. Giving out "free" samples? Presumably someone is being paid to do that, so advertising. We can later quibble about…

Why not just eliminate the sale of personal data? That seems pretty cut and dry.

That's only part of the problem.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#216

Post by 3971671613 » Sat, Apr 05, 2025, 7:32 PM UTC

andrewstuart wrote: post #49

Most people who protest oil use cars, roads and plastics, all made of oil. And people who object to advertising live in a world in which their daily lives are provided for by companies that depend on advertising to exist. As PT Barnum said "Without promotion, something terrible happens... nothing!" and all the companies that make up our economic ecosystem depend on things happening …. sales, which don’t happen withou…

> And people who object to advertising live in a world in which their daily lives are provided for by companies that depend on advertising to exist.

"We should improve society somewhat."

"Yet you participate in society. Curious!"

> Advertising has been around since Ancient Mesopotamia 5,000 years ago and will be around in 5,000 more years.

Someone probably made the same argument about slavery hundreds of years ago, but here we are.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#217

Post by neuralRiot » Sat, Apr 05, 2025, 7:33 PM UTC

pishpash wrote: post #152

imiric wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need to go into absurd discussions in order to prevent 99% of the harm that comes from modern advertising. The line is clear: is money being exchanged in order to promote a product? That's advertising. Someone I know mentioning a product because they want to recommend it to me? Not advertising. Giving out "free" samples? Presumably someone is being paid to do that, so advertising. We can later quibble about…

Why not just eliminate the sale of personal data? That seems pretty cut and dry.

I feel like all the “targeted audience” stuff is used more to sell ad space and get its metrics rather than actually “targeting” ads.

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#218

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Apr 05, 2025, 7:34 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#219

Post by FuriouslyAdrift » Sat, Apr 05, 2025, 7:35 PM UTC

imiric wrote: post #127

toomim wrote: post #10

This begs the question: how could you reliably distinguish advertising from other forms of free speech? The courts already distinguish "commercial speech" as a class of speech. Would we prevent all forms of commercial speech? What about a waiter asking you "would you like to try a rosé with that dish? It pairs very well together." Is that "advertising" that would need to be outlawed? What about giving out free sample…

We don't need to go into absurd discussions in order to prevent 99% of the harm that comes from modern advertising. The line is clear: is money being exchanged in order to promote a product? That's advertising. Someone I know mentioning a product because they want to recommend it to me? Not advertising. Giving out "free" samples? Presumably someone is being paid to do that, so advertising. We can later quibble about…

Most advertising is done via "influencers," now...

Re: What if we made advertising illegal?

#220

Post by YurgenJurgensen » Sat, Apr 05, 2025, 7:35 PM UTC

massysett wrote: post #197

georgelyon wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of product discovery has value. Advertising funds product discovery by taking some of the funds that you pay for goods, and funneling that money to platforms and creators that are willing to help others discover that product. There is an alternative model where we simply pay professional product discoverers. Think influencers, but whose customer is the fan not the sponsor. It would be a massive cultural shif…

Businesses will then send the discoverers free samples, provide literature, and send “advisers” to talk with the discoverers, and you’ll be right back where you started.

Is it a consideration with monetary value? Then it’s advertising, much like how bribing public official is still (theoretically) illegal even if you don’t do it in cash. If it’s not, then the discoverer has no incentive to act according to the business’s demand.